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From:   Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org>
Date:   Tue, 4 Oct 2022 14:32:26 +0200
Message-ID: <CAMuHMdW1yp76X6xMFSXnpRNXPBVVLuyqm=UCOZ0uQem0_50poQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues"
To:     "Artem S. Tashkinov" <aros@gmx.com>
Cc:     Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
        Mike Rapoport <rppt@kernel.org>,
        Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
        "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>,
        Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>,
        Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
        Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org>,
        workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
        Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
        "regressions@lists.linux.dev" <regressions@lists.linux.dev>,
        ksummit@lists.linux.dev,
        Mario Limonciello <mario.limonciello@amd.com>
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Hi Artem,

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 2:16 PM Artem S. Tashkinov <aros@gmx.com> wrote:
> On 10/3/22 14:20, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> > On Mon, 3 Oct 2022 09:40:43 +0000
> > "Artem S. Tashkinov" <aros@gmx.com> wrote:
> >> For instance, I've CC'ed Linus Torvalds _privately_ from Bugzilla twice
> >> and he _chimed_ in and _helped_ resolve the bugs.
> >
> > You didn't Cc Linus _privately_, because you Cc'd him from Bugzilla. I'm
> > guessing that means it's a public conversation. Which is similar to Cc'ing
> > a maintainer and a public mailing list.
>
> I _did_ CC him privately by adding his _personal_ e-mail. I'm astonished
> not only you don't believe me you turn my words inside out.

I think there is a misunderstanding of the meaning of "CC privately".
To me it means no public data disclosing entity (be it a public mailing
list, or a public bug tracker) was CCed as well.
To you, it seems to mean you used his personal email address instead
of a mailing list address.

> Wow, so pretty much the vast majority of people here advocate for
> deprecating Bugzilla and asking non-IT people to use something which is
> essentially a ... SPAM list?
>
> Woah.
>
> I've given almost a dozen reasons why mailing lists simply don't work as
> a bug tracker in absolute most cases.

And people disagree.  No amount of "Woah" will change that, only
facts and figures can do.

> BTW, this discussion is a perfect f-ing example of that. What could have
> been easily read in a tracker needs to be repeated over and over and
> over again because you didn't bother to read previous messages 'cause
> you were busy, not paying attention, simply forgot and you don't want to
> scroll days of messages in your inbox.
>
> God, this is so ugly it's cringe worthy.
>
> Most people here who advocate for killing off Bugzilla:
>
> 1) Have _never_ used it
> 2) Have troubles even following _this_ conversation
>
> That' ridiculous.

Thanks for your insults.
This is not the way to convince people.

P.S. I did read all of it, I may stop doing so soon...

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

                        Geert

--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
                                -- Linus Torvalds