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Date:   Wed, 12 Oct 2022 15:30:00 +0100
From:   Qais Yousef <qais.yousef@arm.com>
To:     Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org>
Cc:     Youssef Esmat <youssefesmat@google.com>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
        Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>, juri.lelli@redhat.com,
        vincent.guittot@linaro.org,
        Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>, bristot@redhat.com,
        clark.williams@gmail.com, bigeasy@linutronix.de,
        "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Sum of weights idea for CFS PI
Message-ID: <20221012143000.5ev5qvqijwbz5isp@wubuntu>
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On 10/10/22 11:11, Joel Fernandes wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 10:46 AM Qais Yousef <qais.yousef@arm.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 10/08/22 11:04, Joel Fernandes wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Oct 6, 2022, at 3:40 PM, Youssef Esmat <youssefesmat@google.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > [..]
> > > >>
> > > >>> Anyway - just trying to explain how I see it and why C is unlikely to be
> > > >>> taking too much time. I could be wrong. As Youssef said, I think there's
> > > >>> no fundamental problem here.
> > > >>
> > > >> I know on Android where they use smaller HZ, the large tick causes lots of
> > > >> problems for large nice deltas. Example if a highly niced task was to be
> > > >> preempted for 1ms, and preempts instead at 3ms, then the less-niced task
> > > >> will not be so nice (even less nice than it promised to be) any more
> > > >> because of the 2ms boost that the higher niced task got. This can lead the
> > > >> the sched_latency thrown out of the window. Not adjusting the weights
> > > >> properly can potentially make that problem much worse IMO.
> > > >
> > > > Once C releases the lock it should get adjusted and A will get adjusted
> > > > also regardless of tick. At the point we adjust the weights we have
> > > > a chance to check for preemption and cause a reschedule.
> > >
> > > Yes but the lock can be held for potentially long time (and even user space
> > > lock). I’m more comfortable with Peter’s PE patch which seems a more generic
> > > solution, than sum of weights if we can get it working. I’m studying Connor’s
> > > patch set now…
> >
> > The 2 solutions are equivalent AFAICT.
> 
> Possibly. Maybe I am talking about a non-issue then, but I had to be
> careful ;-) Maybe both have the issue I was referring to, or they
> don't. But in any case, PE seems more organic.

Careful is good! I failed to see the problem, that doesn't mean it doesn't
exist :-)

> 
> > With summation:
> >
> >    A    ,    B   ,    C   ,    D
> > sleeping, running, running, running
> >    -    ,   1/5  ,   3/5  ,   1/5
> >
> > Where we'll treat A as running but donate its bandwidth to C, the mutex owner.
> 
> > With PE:
> >
> >    A    ,    B   ,    C   ,    D
> >  running, running, running, running
> >    2/5  ,   1/5  ,   1/5  ,   1/5
> >
> > Where A will donate its execution context to C, the mutex owner.
> 
> Yes. It would also be great if Peter can participate in this thread,
> if he has time. Not to nitpick but to be more precise in PE
> terminology, you mean "scheduler context". The "execution context" is
> not inherited [1]
> 
> If p1 is selected to run while still blocked, the lock owner p2 can
> run "on its behalf", inheriting p1's scheduler context. Execution
> context is not inherited, meaning that e.g. the CPUs where p2 can run
> are still determined by its own affinity and not p1's.

Yep sorry got the terminology mixed up :-)


Cheers

--
Qais Yousef

> 
> [1] https://lore.kernel.org/all/73859883-78c4-1080-7846-e8d644ad397a@redhat.com/t/#mdf0146cdf78e48fc5cc515c1a34cdc1d596e0ed8
> 
> > In both cases we should end up with the same distribution as if neither A nor
> > C ever go to sleep because of holding the mutex.
> 
> Hopefully!
> 
> > I still can't see how B and D fairness will be impacted as the solution to the
> > problem is to never treat a waiter as sleeping and let the owner run for more,
> > but only within the limit of what the waiter is allowed to run for. AFAICS,
> > both solutions maintain this relationship.
> 
> True!
> 
>  - Joel