Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1757793AbXHEHSh (ORCPT ); Sun, 5 Aug 2007 03:18:37 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1753516AbXHEHSb (ORCPT ); Sun, 5 Aug 2007 03:18:31 -0400 Received: from mx3.mail.elte.hu ([157.181.1.138]:57076 "EHLO mx3.mail.elte.hu" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753024AbXHEHSa (ORCPT ); Sun, 5 Aug 2007 03:18:30 -0400 Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 09:18:01 +0200 From: Ingo Molnar To: Alan Cox Cc: Jeff Garzik , =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rn?= Engel , Linus Torvalds , Peter Zijlstra , linux-mm@kvack.org, Linux Kernel Mailing List , miklos@szeredi.hu, akpm@linux-foundation.org, neilb@suse.de, dgc@sgi.com, tomoki.sekiyama.qu@hitachi.com, nikita@clusterfs.com, trond.myklebust@fys.uio.no, yingchao.zhou@gmail.com, richard@rsk.demon.co.uk, david@lang.hm Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/23] per device dirty throttling -v8 Message-ID: <20070805071801.GD515@elte.hu> References: <20070804103347.GA1956@elte.hu> <20070804163733.GA31001@elte.hu> <46B4C0A8.1000902@garzik.org> <20070804191205.GA24723@lazybastard.org> <20070804192130.GA25346@elte.hu> <20070804211156.5f600d80@the-village.bc.nu> <46B4E161.9080100@garzik.org> <20070804224706.617500a0@the-village.bc.nu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070804224706.617500a0@the-village.bc.nu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.14 (2007-02-12) X-ELTE-VirusStatus: clean X-ELTE-SpamScore: -1.0 X-ELTE-SpamLevel: X-ELTE-SpamCheck: no X-ELTE-SpamVersion: ELTE 2.0 X-ELTE-SpamCheck-Details: score=-1.0 required=5.9 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=no SpamAssassin version=3.1.7-deb -1.0 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1324 Lines: 29 * Alan Cox wrote: > > Linux has always been a "POSIX unless its stupid" type of system. > > For the upstream kernel, we should do the right thing -- noatime by > > default -- but allow distros and people that care about rigid > > compliance to easily change the default. > > Linux has never been a "suprise your kernel interfaces all just > changed today" kernel, nor a "gosh you upgraded and didn't notice your > backups broke" kernel. HSM uses atime as a _hint_. The only even remotely valid argument is Mutt, and even that one could easily be fixed _it is not even installed by default on most distros_ and nobody but me uses it ;) [and i've been using Mutt on noatime filesystems for years] So basically a single type of package and use-case (against tens of thousands of packages) held all of Linux desktop IO performance hostage for 10 years, to the tune of a 20-30-50-100% performance degradation (depending on the workload)? Wow. And the atime situation is _so_ obvious, what will we do in the much less obvious cases? Ingo - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/