From: Michael Buesch <mb@bu3sch.de>
To: Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>
Subject: Re: [patch] ipvs: force read of atomic_t in while loop
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:35:18 +0200
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Cc: Chris Snook <csnook@redhat.com>,
       Heiko Carstens <heiko.carstens@de.ibm.com>,
       David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>, akpm@linux-foundation.org,
       linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org,
       schwidefsky@de.ibm.com, wensong@linux-vs.org, horms@verge.net.au,
       torvalds@osdl.org
References: <20070808093300.GA14530@osiris.boeblingen.de.ibm.com> <46BA30DC.20207@redhat.com> <20070809001533.GA17798@one.firstfloor.org>
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On Thursday 09 August 2007 02:15:33 Andi Kleen wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 05:08:44PM -0400, Chris Snook wrote:
> > Heiko Carstens wrote:
> > >On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 03:21:31AM -0700, David Miller wrote:
> > >>From: Heiko Carstens <heiko.carstens@de.ibm.com>
> > >>Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:33:00 +0200
> > >>
> > >>>Just saw this while grepping for atomic_reads in a while loops.
> > >>>Maybe we should re-add the volatile to atomic_t. Not sure.
> > >>I think whatever the choice, it should be done consistently
> > >>on every architecture.
> > >>
> > >>It's just asking for trouble if your arch does it differently from
> > >>every other.
> > >
> > >Well..currently it's i386/x86_64 and s390 which have no volatile
> > >in atomic_t. And yes, of course I agree it should be consistent
> > >across all architectures. But it isn't.
> > 
> > Based on recent discussion, it's pretty clear that there's a lot of 
> > confusion about this.  A lot of people (myself included, until I thought 
> > about it long and hard) will reasonably assume that calling 
> > atomic_read() will actually read the value from memory.  Leaving out the 
> > volatile declaration seems like a pessimization to me.  If you force 
> > people to use barrier() everywhere they're working with atomic_t, it 
> > will force re-reads of all the non-atomic data in use as well, which 
> > will cause more memory fetches of things that generally don't need 
> > barrier().  That and it's a bug waiting to happen.
> > 
> > Andi -- your thoughts on the matter?
> 
> I also think readding volatile makes sense. An alternative would be
> to stick an rmb() into atomic_read() -- that would also stop speculative reads.
> Disadvantage is that it clobbers all memory, not just the specific value.
> 
> But you really have to complain to Linus (cc'ed). He came up
> with the volatile removale change iirc.

Isn't it possible through some inline assembly trick
that only a certain variable has to be reloaded?
So we could define something like that:

#define reload_var(x) __asm__ __volatile__ (whatever, x)

I don't know inline assembly that much, but isn't it possible
with that to kind of "fake-touch" the variable, so the compiler
must reload it (and only it) to make sure it's up to date?

-- 
Greetings Michael.
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