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Subject: Re: Thinking outside the box on file systems
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:09:25 -0400
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0708160754220.17345@chaos.analogic.com>
In-Reply-To: <46C43818.4050506@aitel.hist.no>
Thread-Topic: Thinking outside the box on file systems
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References: <174219.56922.qm@web52501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <46C43818.4050506@aitel.hist.no>
From: "linux-os \(Dick Johnson\)" <linux-os@analogic.com>
To: "Helge Hafting" <helge.hafting@aitel.hist.no>
Cc: "Marc Perkel" <mperkel@yahoo.com>, "Kyle Moffett" <mrmacman_g4@mac.com>,
       "Michael Tharp" <gxti@partiallystapled.com>,
       "alan" <alan@clueserver.org>,
       "LKML Kernel" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
       "Lennart Sorensen" <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Reply-To: "linux-os \(Dick Johnson\)" <linux-os@analogic.com>
Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, Helge Hafting wrote:

> Marc Perkel wrote:
>> Kyle, What I'm suggesting is scrapping all existing
>> concepts and replacing them with something entirely
>> new. Posix, Unix, SELinux go away except for an
>> emulation layer for backwards compatibility. What I'm
>> suggesting is to start over and do it right.
>>
> If you want to get any support for "starting over",
> then  you need to:
> 1. Point out some serious problem with the existing stuff,
>   otherwise why _bother_ start over
> 2. Come up with a truly better idea (demonstrably better)
>    that isn't full of so obvious flaws that a seasoned kernel
>    developer can shoot it down in 5 minutes.
>
> Trying to be a visionary with a "great idea" that you are
> prepared to let others implement just don't work on
> this list.  If you want to go that route, you
> start a company, hire programmers, tell them to
> implement your vision. If your idea is good then
> your company succeeds.
>
> If you want to be an open-source visionary, you have to
> do the initial work yourself until you attract other interested people.
>
>> One of the problems with the Unix/Linux world is that
>> your minds are locked into this one model. In order to
>> do it right it requires the mental discipline to break
>> out of that.
>>
> Or perhaps unix have the best model already? ;-)
> If you want a big break with the existing unix models, then
> perhaps a entirely new project is in order, rather than
> trying to change linux. Linux is after all, in use by millions
> who are satisfied with the linux filesystem model already.
>
> Now, linux is open-source, so you can of course use it as a
> starting point for your different system.  Then you can compete
> with "standard linux" - see who attracts most developers and
> most users in the long run.
>
> Helge Hafting
> -

I think Marc Perkel's basic idea was implimented under CP/M as
a "user level." Also, the concept of a virtual directory structure
has been around about as long as "container files," such as those
on the old Intel MDS200 development station. This is hardly
"thinking out-of-the-box." It's just a rehash of some abandoned
stuff.

That said, a major speed limitation of directory lookups
is the manipulation and comparison of variable-length strings.
Maybe Mark might be able to improve this by truly thinking
out-of-the-box.

Cheers,
Dick Johnson
Penguin : Linux version 2.6.22.1 on an i686 machine (5588.29 BogoMips).
My book : http://www.AbominableFirebug.com/
_


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