Received: by 2002:a05:6358:a55:b0:ec:fcf4:3ecf with SMTP id 21csp850449rwb; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 09:25:08 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXuss+hVGemrKIG2/9IwNe/p+QcLlzvVkl2VI2RATROKlAalquPdo3KSwoW4tjrZFGmPaqO7 X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b18a:b0:194:87fe:c8f9 with SMTP id s10-20020a170902b18a00b0019487fec8f9mr700315plr.38.1673717108348; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 09:25:08 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1673717108; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=oNbaPC2Bck/GAfp+0dfdoGro40awGGXWSfZ1pwWNsqSlGkgoToHTtXrzkke5qdRPMr q16owfqCbSUL1HoEsm9flg6JXwuuJKfLL2ZZcydNCvFPRiF5siQG/RIQWr8mTkKC6/gY al2xrLhZMZU2urAhsOFT6w1JpMoBAIKh76aNcZ27gE+pNznNsUsQQTVW4TBw5ejLRtr2 p5XiVKZ5SirnoPaajHeEnT49Zq+ApflVctVaHBr8lJMUsChoBGVMbYwq84JHJaiaW3QX 1fS9CW7JRlCJ/DO5G5+yNQMtQEPRGcUEvWP4qm0NP2rNRqcrXD4JgGseYDeyb6Q/nwZ7 IDOQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-id:precedence:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version :references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date; bh=oe7Vz1ZXSiyUh5LcAOM7OJgncXWBmGeMxLL5vp1/dDQ=; b=XigcGYxPTbl16hRDATxQ0aobxpKeaHRE1QLtMSKUk1hqoFXDjeXvoQCw/Z3ORiH/E0 zvbKSHH8sDqsyOMxufSj9yF/2R3y2gMpJIDKP/1VIjbSQ+mcxRfpIQHQdOHk+30Gp7SD o4yWy1XAn5anNySPwO0v2q0gm/c5wHVzBa3Mrwi/jfFgrhdOnKPhM7X45OkXoNsL298H EZc89hSbxxhc/TDSDpeIe3fqFFQDV+yf4GJZJRo079RPNJCAQ+sPf9+r+f+oOoUgbKVW 11Vf9+bTGVerl2wwDnI7PV4F5liLsnlp0ZxhuzCLmRyXCMJ8BQZYr8RxuE5espKuCEwm YQ0w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 2620:137:e000::1:20 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Return-Path: Received: from out1.vger.email (out1.vger.email. [2620:137:e000::1:20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id b29-20020a631b5d000000b004a77afad410si24256028pgm.487.2023.01.14.09.25.01; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 09:25:08 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 2620:137:e000::1:20 as permitted sender) client-ip=2620:137:e000::1:20; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 2620:137:e000::1:20 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S230170AbjANQmh (ORCPT + 52 others); Sat, 14 Jan 2023 11:42:37 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:60902 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229455AbjANQmf (ORCPT ); Sat, 14 Jan 2023 11:42:35 -0500 Received: from netrider.rowland.org (netrider.rowland.org [192.131.102.5]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EF17E8A54 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 08:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 65591 invoked by uid 1000); 14 Jan 2023 11:42:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2023 11:42:32 -0500 From: Alan Stern To: Jonas Oberhauser Cc: "paulmck@kernel.org" , Peter Zijlstra , "parri.andrea" , will , "boqun.feng" , npiggin , dhowells , "j.alglave" , "luc.maranget" , akiyks , dlustig , joel , urezki , quic_neeraju , frederic , Kernel development list Subject: Re: Internal vs. external barriers (was: Re: Interesting LKMM litmus test) Message-ID: References: <20220921173109.GA1214281@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1> <114ECED5-FED1-4361-94F7-8D9BC02449B7> <07579baee4b84532a76ea8b0b33052bb@huawei.com> <20230112215716.GS4028633@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on lindbergh.monkeyblade.net Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 02:55:34PM +0000, Jonas Oberhauser wrote: > I think the whole rcu-order topic can be summarized as the 'one rule': "if a grace period happens before a rcsc-unlock, it must also happen before the rcsc -lock, and analogously if rcsc-lock happens before a grace period, the rcsc-unlock also happens before the grace period" . There is more to it than that, as I mentioned earlier. A complete description can be found the explanation.txt document; it says: For any critical section C and any grace period G, at least one of the following statements must hold: (1) C ends before G does, and in addition, every store that propagates to C's CPU before the end of C must propagate to every CPU before G ends. (2) G starts before C does, and in addition, every store that propagates to G's CPU before the start of G must propagate to every CPU before C starts. Alan