Date:   Thu, 26 Jan 2023 17:07:40 +0000
From:   Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko@kernel.org>
To:     William Roberts <bill.c.roberts@gmail.com>
Cc:     James Bottomley <jejb@linux.ibm.com>,
        Matthew Garrett <mgarrett@aurora.tech>,
        Evan Green <evgreen@chromium.org>,
        linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, corbet@lwn.net,
        linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org,
        Eric Biggers <ebiggers@kernel.org>, gwendal@chromium.org,
        dianders@chromium.org, apronin@chromium.org,
        Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>, Ben Boeckel <me@benboeckel.net>,
        rjw@rjwysocki.net, Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
        dlunev@google.com, zohar@linux.ibm.com, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org,
        Matthew Garrett <mjg59@google.com>,
        Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@ziepe.ca>, Peter Huewe <peterhuewe@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 03/11] tpm: Allow PCR 23 to be restricted to
 kernel-only use
Message-ID: <Y9KzXPuMUAa47lj3@kernel.org>
References: <20221111231636.3748636-1-evgreen@chromium.org>
 <20221111151451.v5.3.I9ded8c8caad27403e9284dfc78ad6cbd845bc98d@changeid>
 <8ae56656a461d7b957b93778d716c6161070383a.camel@linux.ibm.com>
 <CAHSSk06sH6Ck11R7k8Pk_30KbzLzZVdBdj5MpsNfY-R_1kt_dA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFftDdqUOiysgrAC4wPUXRaEWz4j9V6na3u4bm29AfxE8TAyXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHSSk04asd_ac8KLJYNRyR1Z+fD+iUb+UxjUu0U=HbT1-2R7Ag@mail.gmail.com>
 <08302ed1c056da86a71aa2e6ca19111075383e75.camel@linux.ibm.com>
 <Y8tcEtr8Kl3p4qtA@kernel.org>
 <CAFftDdoVraQVKLZGc6gMpZRyyK+LEO3cwjLhKM61qbp8ZSRYrg@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAFftDdoVraQVKLZGc6gMpZRyyK+LEO3cwjLhKM61qbp8ZSRYrg@mail.gmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 11:48:25AM -0600, William Roberts wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 9:29 PM Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko@kernel.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 09:55:37AM -0500, James Bottomley wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2023-01-03 at 13:10 -0800, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 1:05 PM William Roberts
> > > > <bill.c.roberts@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What's the use case of using the creation data and ticket in this
> > > > > context? Who gets the creationData and the ticket?
> > > > > Could a user supplied outsideInfo work? IIRC I saw some patches
> > > > > flying around where the sessions will get encrypted and presumably
> > > > > correctly as well. This would allow the transfer of that
> > > > > outsideInfo, like the NV Index PCR value to be included and
> > > > > integrity protected by the session HMAC.
> > > >
> > > > The goal is to ensure that the key was generated by the kernel. In
> > > > the absence of the creation data, an attacker could generate a
> > > > hibernation image using their own key and trick the kernel into
> > > > resuming arbitrary code. We don't have any way to pass secret data
> > > > from the hibernate kernel to the resume kernel, so I don't think
> > > > there's any easy way to do it with outsideinfo.
> > >
> > > Can we go back again to why you can't use locality?  It's exactly
> > > designed for this since locality is part of creation data.  Currently
> > > everything only uses locality 0, so it's impossible for anyone on Linux
> > > to produce a key with anything other than 0 in the creation data for
> > > locality.  However, the dynamic launch people are proposing that the
> > > Kernel should use Locality 2 for all its operations, which would allow
> > > you to distinguish a key created by the kernel from one created by a
> > > user by locality.
> > >
> > > I think the previous objection was that not all TPMs implement
> > > locality, but then not all laptops have TPMs either, so if you ever
> > > come across one which has a TPM but no locality, it's in a very similar
> > > security boat to one which has no TPM.
> >
> > Kernel could try to use locality 2 and use locality 0 as fallback.
> 
> I don't think that would work for Matthew, they need something
> reliable to indicate key provenance.
> 
> I was informed that all 5 localities should be supported starting
> with Gen 7 Kaby Lake launched in 2016. Don't know if this is
> still "too new".

What about having opt-in flag that distributions can then enable?

BR, Jarkko