Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1756219AbXJBU6r (ORCPT ); Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:58:47 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1755500AbXJBU6Z (ORCPT ); Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:58:25 -0400 Received: from mail.tmr.com ([64.65.253.246]:36995 "EHLO gaimboi.tmr.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1755387AbXJBU6W (ORCPT ); Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:58:22 -0400 Message-ID: <4702B1D5.5050502@tmr.com> Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:02:13 -0400 From: Bill Davidsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.8) Gecko/20061105 SeaMonkey/1.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: gmane.linux.kernel.lsm,gmane.linux.kernel To: Linus Torvalds CC: Stephen Smalley , James Morris , Andrew Morton , casey@schaufler-ca.com, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] Version 3 (2.6.23-rc8) Smack: Simplified Mandatory Access Control Kernel References: <46FEEBD4.5050401@schaufler-ca.com> <20070930011618.ccb8351b.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <1191253239.7672.76.camel@moss-spartans.epoch.ncsc.mil> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1756 Lines: 37 Linus Torvalds wrote: > > On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Stephen Smalley wrote: >> You argued against pluggable schedulers, right? Why is security >> different? > > Schedulers can be objectively tested. There's this thing called > "performance", that can generally be quantified on a load basis. > > Yes, you can have crazy ideas in both schedulers and security. Yes, you > can simplify both for a particular load. Yes, you can make mistakes in > both. But the *discussion* on security seems to never get down to real > numbers. > And yet you can make the exact same case for schedulers as security, you can quantify the behavior, but if your only choice is A it doesn't help to know that B is better. You say "performance" as if it had universal meaning. In truth people want to optimize for total tps (servers), or responsiveness on the human scale (mail, dns, nntp servers), or perceived smoothness (with many threads updating a display to slow with load rather than start visibly jumping the motion from one to another), or very short term response (-rt patches). People want very different behavior under the same load, and that is what *they* call "performance," namely best delivery of what's important. The numbers are "hard science" but the choice of which numbers are important is still "people wanking around with their opinions". -- Bill Davidsen "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/