Message-ID: <47168EA1.1080300@tmr.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:37:21 -0400
From: Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
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To: Al Boldi <a1426z@gawab.com>
CC: Patrick McHardy <kaber@trash.net>, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org,
       netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-net@vger.kernel.org,
       linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFD] iptables:  mangle table obsoletes filter table
References: <200710120031.42805.a1426z@gawab.com> <470EF994.4080403@trash.net> <200710120837.18152.a1426z@gawab.com>
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Al Boldi wrote:
> Patrick McHardy wrote:
>> Please send mails discussing netfilter to netfilter-devel.
> 
> Ok.  I just found out this changed to vger.  But 
> netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org is bouncing me.
> 
>> Al Boldi wrote:
>>> With the existence of the mangle table, how useful is the filter table?
>>>
>>> Other than requiring the REJECT target to be ported to the mangle table,
>>> is the filter table faster than the mangle table?
>> There are some minor differences in ordering (mangle comes before
>> DNAT, filter afterwards), but for most rulesets thats completely
>> irrelevant. The only difference that really matters is that mangle
>> performs rerouting in LOCAL_OUT for packets that had their routing
>> key changed, so its really a superset of the filter table. If you
>> want to use REJECT in the mangle table, you just need to remove the
>> restriction to filter, it works fine. I would prefer to also remove
>> the restriction of MARK, CONNMARK etc. to mangle, they're used for
>> more than just routing today so that restriction also doesn't make
>> much sense. Patches for this are welcome.
> 
> Something like this (untested):
> 
> --- ipt_REJECT.bak.c    2007-10-12 08:25:17.000000000 +0300
> +++ ipt_REJECT.c        2007-10-12 08:31:44.000000000 +0300
> @@ -165,6 +165,7 @@ static void send_reset(struct sk_buff *o
>  
>  static inline void send_unreach(struct sk_buff *skb_in, int code)
>  {
> +       if (!skb_in->dst) ip_route_me_harder(&skb_in, RTN_UNSPEC);
>         icmp_send(skb_in, ICMP_DEST_UNREACH, code, 0);
>  }
>  
> @@ -245,9 +246,6 @@ static struct xt_target ipt_reject_reg =
>         .family         = AF_INET,
>         .target         = reject,
>         .targetsize     = sizeof(struct ipt_reject_info),
> -       .table          = "filter",
> -       .hooks          = (1 << NF_IP_LOCAL_IN) | (1 << NF_IP_FORWARD) |
> -                         (1 << NF_IP_LOCAL_OUT),
>         .checkentry     = check,
>         .me             = THIS_MODULE,
>  };
> 
>>> If not, then shouldn't the filter table be obsoleted to avoid confusion?
>> That would probably confuse people. Just don't use it if you don't
>> need to.
> 
That is a most practical suggestion.

> The problem is that people think they are safe with the filter table, when in 
> fact they need the prerouting chain to seal things.  Right now this is only 
> possible in the mangle table.
> 
I'm not sure what you think is unsafe about using the filter table, and 
the order of evaluation issues certainly seem to suggest that some 
actions would take a major rethink at least. Perhaps you could avoid 
breaking all of the setups which currently work, rather than force 
everyone to do things differently because you feel that your way is better.

-- 
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
   "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot
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