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Date:   Mon, 31 Jul 2023 22:04:14 -0500
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Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/1] tpm: disable hwrng for fTPM on some AMD designs
Content-Language: en-US
To:     "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>,
        Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc:     linux@dominikbrodowski.net, Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko@kernel.org>,
        Daniil Stas <daniil.stas@posteo.net>,
        James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com,
        linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
        regressions@leemhuis.info, stable@vger.kernel.org
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--------------twtoQgukQ1lLOmDhRpcR2xvE
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On 7/31/23 18:40, Jason A. Donenfeld wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been tracking this issue with Mario on various threads and
> bugzilla for a while now. My suggestion over at bugzilla was to just
> disable all current AMD fTPMs by bumping the check for a major version
> number, so that the hardware people can reenable it i it's ever fixed,
> but only if this is something that the hardware people would actually
> respect. As I understand it, Mario was going to check into it and see.
> Failing that, yea, just disabling hwrng on fTPM seems like a fine
> enough thing to do.
> 
> The reason I'm not too concerned about that is twofold:
> - Systems with fTPM all have RDRAND anyway, so there's no entropy problem.
> - fTPM *probably* uses the same random source as RDRAND -- the
> TRNG_OUT MMIO register -- so it's not really doing much more than what
> we already have available.

Yeah I have conversations ongoing about this topic, but also I concluded
your suspicion is correct.  They both get their values from the 
integrated CCP HW IP.

> 
> So this all seems fine. And Jarkko's patch seems more or less the
> straight forward way of disabling it. But with that said, in order of
> priority, maybe we should first try these:
> 
> 1) Adjust the version check to a major-place fTPM version that AMD's
> hardware team pinky swears will have this bug fixed. (Though, I can
> already imagine somebody on the list shouting, "we don't trust
> hardware teams to do anything with unreleased stuff!", which could be
> valid.)

I find it very likely the actual root cause is similar to what Linus 
suggested.  If that's the case I don't think the bug can be fixed
by just an fTPM fix but would rather require a BIOS fix.

This to me strengthens the argument to either not register fTPM as RNG 
in the first place or just use TPM for boot time entropy.

> 2) Remove the version check, but add some other query to detect AMD
> fTPM vs realTPM, and ban fTPM.

AMD doesn't make dTPMs, only fTPMs.  It's tempting to try to use 
TPM2_PT_VENDOR_TPM_TYPE, but this actually is a vendor specific value.

I don't see a reliable way in the spec to do this.

> - Remove the version check, and just check for AMD; this is Jarrko's patch.

I have a counter-proposal to Jarkko's patch attached.  This has two 
notable changes:

1) It only disables RNG generation in the case of having RDRAND or RDSEED.
2) It also matches Intel PTT.

I still do also think Linus' idea of TPMs only providing boot time 
entropy is worth weighing out.
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