Message-ID: <4739F739.5040708@rtr.ca>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:12:57 -0500
From: Mark Lord <liml@rtr.ca>
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To: Adrian Bunk <bunk@kernel.org>
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
       David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>, protasnb@gmail.com,
       linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org,
       alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org,
       linux-pcmcia@lists.infradead.org, linux-input@atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz,
       bugme-daemon@bugzilla.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
References: <20071113.035824.40509981.davem@davemloft.net> <20071113041259.79c9a8c5.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <20071113134029.GA30978@elte.hu> <4739AFE0.20705@rtr.ca> <20071113164650.GA28493@elte.hu> <4739E3D0.10201@rtr.ca> <20071113181228.GF4250@stusta.de> <4739EA83.5040006@rtr.ca> <20071113183605.GG4250@stusta.de> <4739F12E.5020807@rtr.ca> <20071113190428.GH4250@stusta.de>
In-Reply-To: <20071113190428.GH4250@stusta.de>
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Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 01:47:10PM -0500, Mark Lord wrote:
>> Adrian Bunk wrote:
>> ...
>>> I did bisecting myself, and I know that it costs time and work.
>>>
>>> But the first point is the above one that it makes otherwise nearly 
>>> undebuggable problems debuggable and fixable.
>> ..
>>
>> Definitely useful, no question.
>>
>> But the problem is now that kernel devs are addicted to it,
>> many won't even consider resolving a problem any other way.
>>
>> That's not "maintaining" (or supporting) one's code.
> 
> What you replaced with two dots contained the answer to this:
> 
> Another point is that it shifts the work from the few experienced 
> developers to the many users. Users (and voluntary testers) we have
> many, but developer time for debugging bug reports is a quite scarce 
> resource.
> 
>> And when a "maintainer" is too busy to find/fix their own bugs,
>> that could be a sign that they've bitten off too big of a chunk
>> of the kernel, and it's time for them to distribute code maintainership.
> 
> The problem is: Maintainers don't grow on trees.
> 
> You need people who are both technically capable and willing to spend 
> time on the non-sexy task of debugging problems.
> 
> Where do you plan to find them?
> 
> If you don't believe me, please find a maintainer for the currently 
> unmaintained parallel port support.
> 
> Or if you want a harder task, find a maintainer for the floppy driver...
..

Again, the problem is:

> But the problem is now that kernel devs are addicted to it,
> many won't even consider resolving a problem any other way.

And that's simply not good enough.

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