Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:09:37 +0000
From: Russell King <rmk+lkml@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>, alsa-devel@alsa-project.org,
       netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-pcmcia@lists.infradead.org,
       linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, protasnb@gmail.com,
       linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, bugme-daemon@bugzilla.kernel.org,
       linux-input@atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz
Subject: Re: [BUG] New Kernel Bugs
Message-ID: <20071113230936.GI1356@flint.arm.linux.org.uk>
Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>, alsa-devel@alsa-project.org,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-pcmcia@lists.infradead.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, protasnb@gmail.com,
	linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, bugme-daemon@bugzilla.kernel.org,
	linux-input@atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz
References: <20071113034916.2556edd7.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <20071113.035824.40509981.davem@davemloft.net> <20071113041259.79c9a8c5.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <20071113.043207.44732743.davem@davemloft.net> <20071113193219.GC1356@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> <20071113125222.9eb53ac8.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <20071113221801.GF1356@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> <20071113143201.9441c940.akpm@linux-foundation.org>
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On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 02:32:01PM -0800, Andrew Morton wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:18:01 +0000 Russell King <rmk+lkml@arm.linux.org.uk> wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 12:52:22PM -0800, Andrew Morton wrote:
> > > On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:32:19 +0000 Russell King <rmk+lkml@arm.linux.org.uk> wrote:
> > > > There's another issue I want to raise concerning bugzilla.  We have the
> > > > classic case of "not enough people reading bugzilla bugs" - which is one
> > > > of the biggest problems with bugzilla.  Virtually no one in the ARM
> > > > community looks for ARM bugs in bugzilla.
> > > 
> > > Nor should they.
> > 
> > So what you're saying is...
> > 
> > > > Let's not forget that it would be a waste of time for people to manually
> > > > check bugzilla for ARM bugs.  There's soo few people reporting ARM bugs
> > > > into bugzilla that a weekly manual check by every maintainer would just
> > > > return the same old boring results for months and months at a time.
> > > 
> > > I screen all bugzilla reports.  100% of them.
> > > 
> > > - I'll try to establish whether it is a regression
> > > 
> > > - I'll solicit any extra information which I believe the reveloper will need
> > > 
> > > - I'll ensure that an appropriate developer has seen the report
> > > 
> > > And yes, the number of arm-specific reports in there is very small.
> > 
> > that just because you do this everyone in a select clique, who you include
> > me in, should be doing this as well.
> > 
> > No.  Thank.  You.
> 
> No, I don't mean that at all and this was very plainly obviously from my very
> clearly written email.  Let me try again.

If you screen all bugzilla reports then you'll know that bug #9356 arrived
at about 1400 GMT yesterday.  It's hardly surprising then that your utterly
crappy responses to Natalie's message (which, incidentally, wasn't copied
to me) sent within 24 hours of that report cause *great* annoyance.

> No, no subsystem developer needs to monitor new bugzilla reports.  This is
> because *I do it for them*.  I will actively make them aware of new reports
> which I believe are legitimate and which contain sufficient information for
> them to be able to take further action.

On the whole you do an excellent job with feeding the bug reports to
people, and while I recognise that you're only human, things do
occasionally go wrong.  For instance, sending clearly marked Samsung
S3C bugs to me rather than Ben Dooks (who's in MAINTAINERS for those
platforms.)

> > > > It would be far more productive if the ARM category was deleted from
> > > > bugzilla and the few people who use bugzilla reported their bugs on the
> > > > mailing list.  We've a couple of thousand people on the ARM kernel
> > > > mailing list at the moment - that's 3 orders of magnitude more of eyes
> > > > than look at bugzilla.
> > > 
> > > Is that linux-arm-kernel@lists.arm.linux.org.uk?
> > 
> > Yes.
> > 
> > > If so, MANITAINERS claims that it is subscribers-only.  That would cause
> > > some bug reporters to give up and go away.
> > 
> > Find some other mailing list; I'm not hosting *nor* am I willing to run a
> > non-subscribers only mailing list.  Period.  Not negotiable, so don't even
> > try to change my mind.
> 
> Making a list subscribers-only will cause some bug reports to be lost.
> 
> Tradeoffs are involved, against which decisions must be made.  You have
> made yours.

So how are they lost when they're held in a moderation queue and are
either accepted, a useful response given to the original poster, or
are forwarded to someone who can deal with the issue.

I don't think "subscribers only" describes my lists - we don't devnull
stuff just because the poster is not a subscriber.

-- 
Russell King
 Linux kernel    2.6 ARM Linux   - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 maintainer of:
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