Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752667AbXLIPss (ORCPT ); Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:48:48 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751294AbXLIPsl (ORCPT ); Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:48:41 -0500 Received: from ebiederm.dsl.xmission.com ([166.70.28.69]:59585 "EHLO ebiederm.dsl.xmission.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751093AbXLIPsk (ORCPT ); Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:48:40 -0500 From: ebiederm@xmission.com (Eric W. Biederman) To: Oleg Nesterov Cc: Andrew Morton , Davide Libenzi , Ingo Molnar , Linus Torvalds , Roland McGrath , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/3] will_become_orphaned_pgrp: we have threads References: <20071208183800.GA9940@tv-sign.ru> <20071209142116.GB131@tv-sign.ru> Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 08:45:58 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20071209142116.GB131@tv-sign.ru> (Oleg Nesterov's message of "Sun, 9 Dec 2007 17:21:16 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2465 Lines: 62 Oleg Nesterov writes: > On 12/08, Eric W. Biederman wrote: >> >> Oleg Nesterov writes: >> >> > p->exit_state != 0 doesn't mean this process is dead, it may have > sub-threads. >> > >> > However, the new "p->exit_state && thread_group_empty(p)" check is not > correct >> > either, this is just the temporary hack. Perhaps we can just remove this > check, >> > but I don't understand orphaned process groups magic. At all. However, I > think >> > exit_notify() is obviously and completely wrong wrt this helper. >> >> The problem that orphaned processes groups address is what happens if >> an entire process group is stopped, and there is not a process that >> can wake them up. >> >> The rule for an unprivileged process sending a signal to a process >> group is that it must be in the same session as the process group. >> >> The rule for sending a signal to a process group is that the signal sender >> must be in the same session. >> >> So we are testing for a process group that does not have a living >> member with a parent outside of the process that can send the process >> group a signal. > > Ah, thanks a lot Eric, I am _starting_ to understand this. > >> Oleg what do you see wrong with checking p->exit_state && >> thread_group_empty(p)? Since non-leader threads all self reap >> that seems to be a valid test for an dead thread group. > > There is a window when exit_notify() drops tasklist and before release_task(). > Suppose the last (non-leader) thread exits. This means that entire group exits, > but thread_group_empty() is not true. And if you are an observer this is important. Equally messed up is a our status in /proc at that point. Which says our sleeping process is a zombie. I'm thinking we need to do at least some of the thread group leadership transfer in do_exit, instead of de_thread. Then p->group_leader->exit_state would be sufficient to see if the entire thread group was alive, as the group_leader would be whoever was left alive. The original group_leader might still need to be kept around for it's pid... I think that would solve most of the problems you have with a dead thread group leader and sending SIG_STOP as well. Eric -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/