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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2024 17:06:03 -0800
From: Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
To: "Liam R. Howlett" <Liam.Howlett@oracle.com>,
	Jeff Xu <jeffxu@chromium.org>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	akpm@linux-foundation.org, keescook@chromium.org, jannh@google.com,
	sroettger@google.com, willy@infradead.org,
	torvalds@linux-foundation.org, usama.anjum@collabora.com,
	rdunlap@infradead.org, jeffxu@google.com, jorgelo@chromium.org,
	groeck@chromium.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	pedro.falcato@gmail.com, dave.hansen@intel.com,
	linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v8 0/4] Introduce mseal
Message-ID: <2024020137-hacking-tightwad-a485@gregkh>
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On Thu, Feb 01, 2024 at 03:24:40PM -0700, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> As an outsider, Linux development is really strange:
> 
> Two sub-features are being pushed very hard, and the primary developer
> doesn't have code which uses either of them.  And once it goes in, it
> cannot be changed.
> 
> It's very different from my world, where the absolutely minimal
> interface was written to apply to a whole operating system plus 10,000+
> applications, and then took months of testing before it was approved for
> inclusion.  And if it was subtly wrong, we would be able to change it.

No, it's this "feature" submission that is strange to think that we
don't need that.  We do need, and will require, an actual working
userspace something to use it, otherwise as you say, there's no way to
actually know if it works properly or not and we can't change it once we
accept it.

So along those lines, Jeff, do you have a pointer to the Chrome patches,
or glibc patches, that use this new interface that proves that it
actually works?  Those would be great to see to at least verify it's
been tested in a real-world situation and actually works for your use
case.

thanks,

greg k-h