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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2024 10:13:45 -0500
From: "Liam R. Howlett" <Liam.Howlett@Oracle.com>
To: Jeff Xu <jeffxu@google.com>
Cc: Jeff Xu <jeffxu@chromium.org>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
        akpm@linux-foundation.org, keescook@chromium.org, jannh@google.com,
        sroettger@google.com, willy@infradead.org, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org,
        torvalds@linux-foundation.org, usama.anjum@collabora.com,
        rdunlap@infradead.org, jorgelo@chromium.org, groeck@chromium.org,
        linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org,
        linux-mm@kvack.org, pedro.falcato@gmail.com, dave.hansen@intel.com,
        linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org, deraadt@openbsd.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v8 0/4] Introduce mseal
Message-ID: <20240202151345.kj4nhb5uog4aknsp@revolver>
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* Jeff Xu <jeffxu@google.com> [240201 22:15]:
> On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 12:45=E2=80=AFPM Liam R. Howlett <Liam.Howlett@ora=
cle.com> wrote:
> >
> > * Jeff Xu <jeffxu@chromium.org> [240131 20:27]:
> > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 11:34=E2=80=AFAM Liam R. Howlett
> > > <Liam.Howlett@oracle.com> wrote:
> > > >
> >
> > Having to opt-in to allowing mseal will probably not work well.
> I'm leaving the opt-in discussion in Linus's thread.
>=20
> > Initial library mappings happen in one huge chunk then it's cut up into
> > smaller VMAs, at least that's what I see with my maple tree tracing.  I=
f
> > you opt-in, then the entire library will have to opt-in and so the
> > 'discourage inadvertent sealing' argument is not very strong.
> >
> Regarding "The initial library mappings happen in one huge chunk then
> it is cut up into smaller VMAS", this is not a problem.
>=20
> As example of elf loading (fs/binfmt_elf.c), there is just a few
> places to pass in what type of memory to be allocated, e.g.
> MAP_PRIVATE, MAP_FIXED_NOREPLACE, we can  add MAP_SEALABLE at those
> places.
> If glic does additional splitting on the memory range, by using
> mprotect(), then the MAP_SEALABLE is automatically applied after
> splitting.
> If glic uses mmap(MAP_FIXED), then it should use mmap(MAP_FIXED|MAP_SEALA=
BLE).

You are adding a flag that requires a new glibc.  When I try to point
out how this is unnecessary and excessive, you tell me it's fine and
probably not a whole lot of work.

This isn't working with developers, you are dismissing the developers
who are trying to help you.

Can you please:

Provide code that uses this feature.

Provide benchmark results where you apply mseal to 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, and
32 VMAs.

Provide code that tests and checks the failure paths.  Failures at the
start, middle, and end of the modifications.

Document what happens in those failure paths.

And, most importantly: keep an open mind and allow your opinion to
change when presented with new information.

All of these things are to help you.  We need to know what needs fixing
so you can be successful.


Thanks,
Liam