Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel+bounces-78199-linux.lists.archive=gmail.com@vger.kernel.org designates 2604:1380:45e3:2400::1 as permitted sender) client-ip=2604:1380:45e3:2400::1;
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 11:05:45 +0000
From: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>
To: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>
Cc: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Ankur Arora <ankur.a.arora@oracle.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, tglx@linutronix.de,
	peterz@infradead.org, torvalds@linux-foundation.org,
	akpm@linux-foundation.org, luto@kernel.org, bp@alien8.de,
	dave.hansen@linux.intel.com, hpa@zytor.com, mingo@redhat.com,
	juri.lelli@redhat.com, vincent.guittot@linaro.org,
	willy@infradead.org, mgorman@suse.de, jpoimboe@kernel.org,
	jgross@suse.com, andrew.cooper3@citrix.com, bristot@kernel.org,
	mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com, glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de,
	anton.ivanov@cambridgegreys.com, mattst88@gmail.com,
	krypton@ulrich-teichert.org, David.Laight@aculab.com,
	richard@nod.at, jon.grimm@amd.com, bharata@amd.com,
	boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com, konrad.wilk@oracle.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/30] PREEMPT_AUTO: support lazy rescheduling
Message-ID: <Zdh8CdrtbL9LgOLG@FVFF77S0Q05N>
References: <0be4df28-99be-41a3-9e24-2b7cfc740b4a@paulmck-laptop>
 <87r0hbkafi.fsf@oracle.com>
 <7db5c057-8bd4-4209-8484-3a0f9f3cd02d@paulmck-laptop>
 <2b735ba4-8081-4ddb-9397-4fe83143d97f@paulmck-laptop>
 <20240221131901.69c80c47@gandalf.local.home>
 <8f30ecd8-629b-414e-b6ea-b526b265b592@paulmck-laptop>
 <20240221151157.042c3291@gandalf.local.home>
 <53020731-e9a9-4561-97db-8848c78172c7@paulmck-laptop>
 <ZddtKszRH5Ak5tZ7@FVFF77S0Q05N>
 <1ec4dc29-8868-4d82-8c5e-c17ad025bc22@paulmck-laptop>
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <1ec4dc29-8868-4d82-8c5e-c17ad025bc22@paulmck-laptop>

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:11:34AM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 03:50:02PM +0000, Mark Rutland wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 12:22:35PM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 03:11:57PM -0500, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 11:41:47 -0800
> > > > "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > I wonder if we can just see if the instruction pointer at preemption is at
> > > > > > something that was allocated? That is, if it __is_kernel(addr) returns
> > > > > > false, then we need to do more work. Of course that means modules will also
> > > > > > trigger this. We could check __is_module_text() but that does a bit more
> > > > > > work and may cause too much overhead. But who knows, if the module check is
> > > > > > only done if the __is_kernel() check fails, maybe it's not that bad.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > I do like very much that idea, but it requires that we be able to identify
> > > > > this instruction pointer perfectly, no matter what.  It might also require
> > > > > that we be able to perfectly identify any IRQ return addresses as well,
> > > > > for example, if the preemption was triggered within an interrupt handler.
> > > > > And interrupts from softirq environments might require identifying an
> > > > > additional level of IRQ return address.  The original IRQ might have
> > > > > interrupted a trampoline, and then after transitioning into softirq,
> > > > > another IRQ might also interrupt a trampoline, and this last IRQ handler
> > > > > might have instigated a preemption.
> > > > 
> > > > Note, softirqs still require a real interrupt to happen in order to preempt
> > > > executing code. Otherwise it should never be running from a trampoline.
> > > 
> > > Yes, the first interrupt interrupted a trampoline.  Then, on return,
> > > that interrupt transitioned to softirq (as opposed to ksoftirqd).
> > > While a softirq handler was executing within a trampoline, we got
> > > another interrupt.  We thus have two interrupted trampolines.
> > > 
> > > Or am I missing something that prevents this?
> > 
> > Surely the problematic case is where the first interrupt is taken from a
> > trampoline, but the inner interrupt is taken from not-a-trampoline? If the
> > innermost interrupt context is a trampoline, that's the same as that without
> > any nesting.
> 
> It depends.  If we wait for each task to not have a trampoline in effect
> then yes, we only need to know whether or not a given task has at least
> one trampoline in use.  One concern with this approach is that a given
> task might have at least one trampoline in effect every time it is
> checked, unlikely though that might seem.
> 
> If this is a problem, one way around it is to instead ask whether the
> current task still has a reference to one of a set of trampolines that
> has recently been removed.  This avoids the problem of a task always
> being one some trampoline or another, but requires exact identification
> of any and all trampolines a given task is currently using.
>
> Either way, we need some way of determining whether or not a given
> PC value resides in a trampoline.  This likely requires some data
> structure (hash table?  tree?  something else?) that must be traversed
> in order to carry out that determination.  Depending on the traversal
> overhead, it might (or might not) be necessary to make sure that the
> traversal is not on the entry/exit/scheduler fast paths.  It is also
> necessary to keep the trampoline-use overhead low and the trampoline
> call points small.

Thanks; I hadn't thought about that shape of livelock problem; with that in
mind my suggestion using flags was inadequate.

I'm definitely in favour of just using Tasks RCU! That's what arm64 does today,
anyhow!

Mark.