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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 07:31:50 -0800
From: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>
To: Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>
Cc: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Ankur Arora <ankur.a.arora@oracle.com>,
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Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/30] PREEMPT_AUTO: support lazy rescheduling
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On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 11:05:45AM +0000, Mark Rutland wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 11:11:34AM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 03:50:02PM +0000, Mark Rutland wrote:
> > > On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 12:22:35PM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 03:11:57PM -0500, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 11:41:47 -0800
> > > > > "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > I wonder if we can just see if the instruction pointer at preemption is at
> > > > > > > something that was allocated? That is, if it __is_kernel(addr) returns
> > > > > > > false, then we need to do more work. Of course that means modules will also
> > > > > > > trigger this. We could check __is_module_text() but that does a bit more
> > > > > > > work and may cause too much overhead. But who knows, if the module check is
> > > > > > > only done if the __is_kernel() check fails, maybe it's not that bad.  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I do like very much that idea, but it requires that we be able to identify
> > > > > > this instruction pointer perfectly, no matter what.  It might also require
> > > > > > that we be able to perfectly identify any IRQ return addresses as well,
> > > > > > for example, if the preemption was triggered within an interrupt handler.
> > > > > > And interrupts from softirq environments might require identifying an
> > > > > > additional level of IRQ return address.  The original IRQ might have
> > > > > > interrupted a trampoline, and then after transitioning into softirq,
> > > > > > another IRQ might also interrupt a trampoline, and this last IRQ handler
> > > > > > might have instigated a preemption.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Note, softirqs still require a real interrupt to happen in order to preempt
> > > > > executing code. Otherwise it should never be running from a trampoline.
> > > > 
> > > > Yes, the first interrupt interrupted a trampoline.  Then, on return,
> > > > that interrupt transitioned to softirq (as opposed to ksoftirqd).
> > > > While a softirq handler was executing within a trampoline, we got
> > > > another interrupt.  We thus have two interrupted trampolines.
> > > > 
> > > > Or am I missing something that prevents this?
> > > 
> > > Surely the problematic case is where the first interrupt is taken from a
> > > trampoline, but the inner interrupt is taken from not-a-trampoline? If the
> > > innermost interrupt context is a trampoline, that's the same as that without
> > > any nesting.
> > 
> > It depends.  If we wait for each task to not have a trampoline in effect
> > then yes, we only need to know whether or not a given task has at least
> > one trampoline in use.  One concern with this approach is that a given
> > task might have at least one trampoline in effect every time it is
> > checked, unlikely though that might seem.
> > 
> > If this is a problem, one way around it is to instead ask whether the
> > current task still has a reference to one of a set of trampolines that
> > has recently been removed.  This avoids the problem of a task always
> > being one some trampoline or another, but requires exact identification
> > of any and all trampolines a given task is currently using.
> >
> > Either way, we need some way of determining whether or not a given
> > PC value resides in a trampoline.  This likely requires some data
> > structure (hash table?  tree?  something else?) that must be traversed
> > in order to carry out that determination.  Depending on the traversal
> > overhead, it might (or might not) be necessary to make sure that the
> > traversal is not on the entry/exit/scheduler fast paths.  It is also
> > necessary to keep the trampoline-use overhead low and the trampoline
> > call points small.
> 
> Thanks; I hadn't thought about that shape of livelock problem; with that in
> mind my suggestion using flags was inadequate.
> 
> I'm definitely in favour of just using Tasks RCU! That's what arm64 does today,
> anyhow!

Full speed ahead, then!!!  But if you come up with a nicer solution,
please do not keep it a secret!

							Thanx, Paul