Received: by 2002:a89:2c3:0:b0:1ed:23cc:44d1 with SMTP id d3csp241409lqs; Mon, 4 Mar 2024 23:56:39 -0800 (PST) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCVMUncNiWnZKCoRWm0RjX1BuuTwNKl7mg7814ndoPxKPfhHIHa88p0ISWhPb0Rq2hdb6bGhEdm0ko2a2XLAKgVlEaAlwhY9ga3hz5w9xQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHj9f5efzIZ5riRPttmpFyKSRR2Ljy0flYecCuSW2zj2mGDjZMXU1rovaBGAO+l9DDH6VKW X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:309:b0:788:264a:73c2 with SMTP id s9-20020a05620a030900b00788264a73c2mr1325781qkm.39.1709625398883; Mon, 04 Mar 2024 23:56:38 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from ny.mirrors.kernel.org (ny.mirrors.kernel.org. [2604:1380:45d1:ec00::1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w1-20020a05620a094100b007881f42860asi6123364qkw.54.2024.03.04.23.56.38 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 04 Mar 2024 23:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel+bounces-91853-linux.lists.archive=gmail.com@vger.kernel.org designates 2604:1380:45d1:ec00::1 as permitted sender) client-ip=2604:1380:45d1:ec00::1; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@leemhuis.info header.s=he214686 header.b=JhzCnBNC; arc=fail (body hash mismatch); spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel+bounces-91853-linux.lists.archive=gmail.com@vger.kernel.org designates 2604:1380:45d1:ec00::1 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="linux-kernel+bounces-91853-linux.lists.archive=gmail.com@vger.kernel.org" Received: from smtp.subspace.kernel.org (wormhole.subspace.kernel.org [52.25.139.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ny.mirrors.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B84F1C220A2 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2024 07:56:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E79B07F482; Tue, 5 Mar 2024 07:55:04 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=leemhuis.info header.i=@leemhuis.info header.b="JhzCnBNC" Received: from wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de [80.237.130.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DD307EF18; Tue, 5 Mar 2024 07:55:01 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=80.237.130.52 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1709625304; cv=none; b=ES0ntCYRghdN+2nF60pYvcR9Gh/5wznBVjAOI+txVngKRPNUCRIPfVrkF7XtQEtwKrClRQhNABLd9xqzV0yv7dH9oxdQIjzAieax3s4tpJJlNJNziiq0eKTInqstA4y1A2PCpQphWj2rP7Eq1mc/mlLrWgP2piHmK9itHf41eEA= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1709625304; c=relaxed/simple; bh=Qc2QrzQObzZ9ytTPPX18mgJC//klkA4fhhVQthnHryM=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=jss8M/HhBLgYaclPiuUhcAOVYuSIEwmb27R5IpWNdFXbz2hpHo813AXDFWw5GrTCyGyuVwBOTO6ibiObd9mUaNttz/EAPdy4aXdy8KHg2/f16+YQ1woz+PZy27nqGmOonmhhl1IWiJRRWIPV9J7fyIGfnku44hbChM1U9yViVhU= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=leemhuis.info; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=leemhuis.info; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=leemhuis.info header.i=@leemhuis.info header.b=JhzCnBNC; arc=none smtp.client-ip=80.237.130.52 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=leemhuis.info Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=leemhuis.info DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=leemhuis.info; s=he214686; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: In-Reply-To:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From: Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:In-Reply-To: References; bh=m/GSTXM5rjOMwejQTmP8hmvxWYFdEGkiEUaavDTNNTE=; t=1709625301; x=1710057301; b=JhzCnBNC9SAHXcgIuGsfB8HwK7JX/bfEamL84kDarojVJ0ih835kGBF7jtsG/ L0xkMWDrs4Ue8Gq++adtQvYFy3OANGS9Nx2bN3KxXLMPtkQe0aRKMl6/lG4OvGCWEFnUp/yA930uU 3dHFTf8f56llrMYiLPKbXFHfnCqegusovrC0EztmXhnBa5q0of8jp0hI0vCAP7nuYbdcQEH4PYYXC XZDDNtjVRbmUoRSlpFPzzUly4pX9ofbj+75qNnkMSPyqc5VZ83XyzcrAqXDf8EVtFC/lHWKv2oq/X GW8wv+A5GDBv6vuQWItfKFKKmYeZOxXpUQG3fJ+BksJfwM3wkw==; Received: from [2a02:8108:8980:2478:8cde:aa2c:f324:937e]; authenticated by wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1rhPdX-0007zm-Ch; Tue, 05 Mar 2024 08:54:55 +0100 Message-ID: <57b07ec5-586a-46e6-9ba2-26be2372c1c2@leemhuis.info> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2024 08:54:54 +0100 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/3] Towards a re-organized submitting patches Content-Language: en-US, de-DE To: Jonathan Corbet , Lukas Bulwahn , workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org Cc: kernel-janitors@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org References: <20240301134637.27880-1-lukas.bulwahn@gmail.com> <87plwbxon7.fsf@meer.lwn.net> From: Thorsten Leemhuis Autocrypt: addr=linux@leemhuis.info; keydata= xsFNBFJ4AQ0BEADCz16x4kl/YGBegAsYXJMjFRi3QOr2YMmcNuu1fdsi3XnM+xMRaukWby47 JcsZYLDKRHTQ/Lalw9L1HI3NRwK+9ayjg31wFdekgsuPbu4x5RGDIfyNpd378Upa8SUmvHik apCnzsxPTEE4Z2KUxBIwTvg+snEjgZ03EIQEi5cKmnlaUynNqv3xaGstx5jMCEnR2X54rH8j QPvo2l5/79Po58f6DhxV2RrOrOjQIQcPZ6kUqwLi6EQOi92NS9Uy6jbZcrMqPIRqJZ/tTKIR OLWsEjNrc3PMcve+NmORiEgLFclN8kHbPl1tLo4M5jN9xmsa0OZv3M0katqW8kC1hzR7mhz+ Rv4MgnbkPDDO086HjQBlS6Zzo49fQB2JErs5nZ0mwkqlETu6emhxneAMcc67+ZtTeUj54K2y Iu8kk6ghaUAfgMqkdIzeSfhO8eURMhvwzSpsqhUs7pIj4u0TPN8OFAvxE/3adoUwMaB+/plk sNe9RsHHPV+7LGADZ6OzOWWftk34QLTVTcz02bGyxLNIkhY+vIJpZWX9UrfGdHSiyYThHCIy /dLz95b9EG+1tbCIyNynr9TjIOmtLOk7ssB3kL3XQGgmdQ+rJ3zckJUQapLKP2YfBi+8P1iP rKkYtbWk0u/FmCbxcBA31KqXQZoR4cd1PJ1PDCe7/DxeoYMVuwARAQABzSdUaG9yc3RlbiBM ZWVtaHVpcyA8bGludXhAbGVlbWh1aXMuaW5mbz7CwZQEEwEKAD4CGwMFCwkIBwMFFQoJCAsF FgIDAQACHgECF4AWIQSoq8a+lZZX4oPULXVytubvTFg9LQUCX31PIwUJFmtPkwAKCRBytubv TFg9LWsyD/4t3g4i2YVp8RoKAcOut0AZ7/uLSqlm8Jcbb+LeeuzjY9T3mQ4ZX8cybc1jRlsL JMYL8GD3a53/+bXCDdk2HhQKUwBJ9PUDbfWa2E/pnqeJeX6naLn1LtMJ78G9gPeG81dX5Yq+ g/2bLXyWefpejlaefaM0GviCt00kG4R/mJJpHPKIPxPbOPY2REzWPoHXJpi7vTOA2R8HrFg/ QJbnA25W55DzoxlRb/nGZYG4iQ+2Eplkweq3s3tN88MxzNpsxZp475RmzgcmQpUtKND7Pw+8 zTDPmEzkHcUChMEmrhgWc2OCuAu3/ezsw7RnWV0k9Pl5AGROaDqvARUtopQ3yEDAdV6eil2z TvbrokZQca2808v2rYO3TtvtRMtmW/M/yyR233G/JSNos4lODkCwd16GKjERYj+sJsW4/hoZ RQiJQBxjnYr+p26JEvghLE1BMnTK24i88Oo8v+AngR6JBxwH7wFuEIIuLCB9Aagb+TKsf+0c HbQaHZj+wSY5FwgKi6psJxvMxpRpLqPsgl+awFPHARktdPtMzSa+kWMhXC4rJahBC5eEjNmP i23DaFWm8BE9LNjdG8Yl5hl7Zx0mwtnQas7+z6XymGuhNXCOevXVEqm1E42fptYMNiANmrpA OKRF+BHOreakveezlpOz8OtUhsew9b/BsAHXBCEEOuuUg87BTQRSeAENARAAzu/3satWzly6 +Lqi5dTFS9+hKvFMtdRb/vW4o9CQsMqL2BJGoE4uXvy3cancvcyodzTXCUxbesNP779JqeHy s7WkF2mtLVX2lnyXSUBm/ONwasuK7KLz8qusseUssvjJPDdw8mRLAWvjcsYsZ0qgIU6kBbvY ckUWkbJj/0kuQCmmulRMcaQRrRYrk7ZdUOjaYmjKR+UJHljxLgeregyiXulRJxCphP5migoy ioa1eset8iF9fhb+YWY16X1I3TnucVCiXixzxwn3uwiVGg28n+vdfZ5lackCOj6iK4+lfzld z4NfIXK+8/R1wD9yOj1rr3OsjDqOaugoMxgEFOiwhQDiJlRKVaDbfmC1G5N1YfQIn90znEYc M7+Sp8Rc5RUgN5yfuwyicifIJQCtiWgjF8ttcIEuKg0TmGb6HQHAtGaBXKyXGQulD1CmBHIW zg7bGge5R66hdbq1BiMX5Qdk/o3Sr2OLCrxWhqMdreJFLzboEc0S13BCxVglnPqdv5sd7veb 0az5LGS6zyVTdTbuPUu4C1ZbstPbuCBwSwe3ERpvpmdIzHtIK4G9iGIR3Seo0oWOzQvkFn8m 2k6H2/Delz9IcHEefSe5u0GjIA18bZEt7R2k8CMZ84vpyWOchgwXK2DNXAOzq4zwV8W4TiYi FiIVXfSj185vCpuE7j0ugp0AEQEAAcLBfAQYAQoAJgIbDBYhBKirxr6Vllfig9QtdXK25u9M WD0tBQJffU8wBQkWa0+jAAoJEHK25u9MWD0tv+0P/A47x8r+hekpuF2KvPpGi3M6rFpdPfeO RpIGkjQWk5M+oF0YH3vtb0+92J7LKfJwv7GIy2PZO2svVnIeCOvXzEM/7G1n5zmNMYGZkSyf x9dnNCjNl10CmuTYud7zsd3cXDku0T+Ow5Dhnk6l4bbJSYzFEbz3B8zMZGrs9EhqNzTLTZ8S Mznmtkxcbb3f/o5SW9NhH60mQ23bB3bBbX1wUQAmMjaDQ/Nt5oHWHN0/6wLyF4lStBGCKN9a TLp6E3100BuTCUCrQf9F3kB7BC92VHvobqYmvLTCTcbxFS4JNuT+ZyV+xR5JiV+2g2HwhxWW uC88BtriqL4atyvtuybQT+56IiiU2gszQ+oxR/1Aq+VZHdUeC6lijFiQblqV6EjenJu+pR9A 7EElGPPmYdO1WQbBrmuOrFuO6wQrbo0TbUiaxYWyoM9cA7v7eFyaxgwXBSWKbo/bcAAViqLW ysaCIZqWxrlhHWWmJMvowVMkB92uPVkxs5IMhSxHS4c2PfZ6D5kvrs3URvIc6zyOrgIaHNzR 8AF4PXWPAuZu1oaG/XKwzMqN/Y/AoxWrCFZNHE27E1RrMhDgmyzIzWQTffJsVPDMQqDfLBhV ic3b8Yec+Kn+ExIF5IuLfHkUgIUs83kDGGbV+wM8NtlGmCXmatyavUwNCXMsuI24HPl7gV2h n7RI In-Reply-To: <87plwbxon7.fsf@meer.lwn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;linux@leemhuis.info;1709625301;54e50987; X-HE-SMSGID: 1rhPdX-0007zm-Ch On 03.03.24 17:31, Jonathan Corbet wrote: > Lukas Bulwahn writes: >> I wanted to clean up the development-process documentation. There is >> however no easy way to break the ice here: >> >> The elephant in the room is that there is some unclear relation between >> 5.Posting.rst, 6.Followthrough.rst and submitting-patches.rst. >> (Yes, I know each document has its own history...; but let us put the >> history aside for now.) > > FWIW, the objective of those two documents is quite different; one is a > high-level overview of how the development process as a whole works, the > other is a detailed guide to submitting work for consideration. Sorry, I'm slightly confused here, so I have to ask: which is which? Due to the "*essential*" in the headline of submitting-patches.rst and its "For *detailed* information on how the kernel development process works, see Documentation/process/development-process.rst" in the intro make it sounds to me like submitting-patches.rst should be the one with the high-level overview. But... > Again, let's remember the different purposes of these documents. The > development-process document is an overall description of the process, > so it doesn't need the details. ..this makes it sounds like you consider it the other way around. And for me that feels the wrong, as why describe the overall process in detail, but leave the most important part of the process to some other document? /me wonders what he is missing Ciao, Thorsten