Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:24:37 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:24:27 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:43396 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:24:14 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:10:38 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Dave Jones Cc: Lionel Bouton , Alan Cox , Linux Kernel List Subject: Re: ISA slot detection on PCI systems? Message-ID: <20020102211038.C21788@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Dave Jones , Lionel Bouton , Alan Cox , Linux Kernel List In-Reply-To: <20020102174824.A21408@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from davej@suse.de on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 12:10:28AM +0100 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Dave Jones : > Given decoding DMI isn't going to get you 100% fool proof way of > detecting slots (See posts on laptops/other usually-with-crap-bios > hardware), I think you're barking up the wrong tree with this > anyway. But at the least I could have logic that says: if you get a DMI readout and there are no ISA slots listed, *then* do useful deductions. > And if you don't know what hardware you've got in the box your > configuring a kernel for, its questionable that you should be > doing so in the first place. That's exactly the bad assumption we need to dynamite. Vaporize. Nuke. It should be possible to build a correctly customized kernel without opening the case of your machine. It should be possible for non-technical people to customize kernels. Kernel customization should present an interface based on what you want to *do* with the machine, not the specific hardware inside it (because the configurator is smart enough to map from the intended-function domain to the hardware- specifics domain). Think useability. On Macintoshes, you configure a kernel by moving the equivalents of modules in and out of a system folder. Users tune their kernels by moving files around -- no muttering of elaborate incantations required. *That's* the direction we should be moving in; there is no good technical reason for the process to be anywhere near as arcane as it is now. I have spent eighteen months thinking very hard about this problem, and whacking a significant piece of it with actual code. So I can say this: the reason linux kernel configuration is still a black art is *only* that lots of people *want it to be that way*. We have elected to treat kernel-building as an initiatory rite that separates the worthy geeks from the unwashed technopeasant masses. This is fine if all we want is to impress each other with our wizardliness. If, on the other hand, we are serious about world domination, it's an attitude that's got to go. We have enough real technical problems to solve without surrounding Linux with a thicket of pseudo-problems. -- Eric S. Raymond During waves of terror attacks, Israel's national police chief will call on all concealed-handgun permit holders to make sure they carry firearms at all times, and Israelis have many examples where concealed permit holders have saved lives. -- John R. Lott Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/