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[147.75.80.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ho20-20020a1709070e9400b00a4e8dcd5aadsi2877756ejc.522.2024.04.04.07.49.01 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 04 Apr 2024 07:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel+bounces-131645-linux.lists.archive=gmail.com@vger.kernel.org designates 147.75.80.249 as permitted sender) client-ip=147.75.80.249; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@kernel.org header.s=k20201202 header.b="blVn1f/g"; arc=pass (i=1 dkim=pass dkdomain=kernel.org); spf=pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel+bounces-131645-linux.lists.archive=gmail.com@vger.kernel.org designates 147.75.80.249 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="linux-kernel+bounces-131645-linux.lists.archive=gmail.com@vger.kernel.org"; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=kernel.org Received: from smtp.subspace.kernel.org (wormhole.subspace.kernel.org [52.25.139.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by am.mirrors.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC43A1F264F0 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2024 14:49:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE671C2BE; Thu, 4 Apr 2024 14:48:53 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="blVn1f/g" Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 341581BDE6; Thu, 4 Apr 2024 14:48:51 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1712242132; cv=none; b=je7IyW9hOBXN59c1VZ9X7iLR+aQk2fkT0CuOAzWZcL4/wprpzYB7AmzLRup9HZwHdU6SOURqw303klEAZU2g8rfvjRACUUcVXGbsXOUp2eG7op9bvFV0FvS3RFPctX3BMMBvVi0YfjA36Lw55QzDeUdUJNltZUcf1fv8/CBQ0Mw= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1712242132; c=relaxed/simple; bh=rVRIqR3/LSX+jFXOSJrMgEG2eSzd5XHIYRaWmk+41kQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=JlAgPSj7gRWWk8y7x3+xQjatkec2yc3ueo9I3skKgfSMeROfWkTOgSvVNT444Gcf0E7m+a4zEte2c0aW3j07f/Xg6exr1Hl2dUaxIbCwQiOPh2D/OVtjEkRQVinGnSsfkKfXtnMC2zPS8WH7c8OYNVrs0rg6XL2jrVQ0olbv5WU= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=blVn1f/g; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 12664C433C7; Thu, 4 Apr 2024 14:48:51 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1712242131; bh=rVRIqR3/LSX+jFXOSJrMgEG2eSzd5XHIYRaWmk+41kQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=blVn1f/gWcaW6tA31PfGDLiXmGMv0hDXOvCB9tTDML5bk4BkZTi0z3c8ha/XqdSOG hZfMuxU6TXJo+RkmtTJLCr01O50LNmJf1jVYwJ+Dc3oDOYHpZ5ALYKNW6WllKI6t3+ QDJMF6J67EE2NsZ594IVgbpVvRKHangYZcMZGL+ScifpWMxV8XrGs2Js43HjH33eKy tdVOhF/pjlfruioZf0EKmmPRjqsFhUZaAPwcw2fJQZiTwErrkt352nR3Bjek7n6lA+ G/jWy2ztaGDIUClCBK2oqZvRb5VV3uPQL0QJH46QQyUE8a2HF7wI8KttvfcAR1neLn fuvP0uQKSr+4w== Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2024 07:48:50 -0700 From: Jakub Kicinski To: Jason Gunthorpe Cc: David Ahern , Leon Romanovsky , Edward Cree , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Christoph Hellwig , Saeed Mahameed , Arnd Bergmann , Jiri Pirko , Leonid Bloch , Itay Avraham , Saeed Mahameed , Aron Silverton , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "netdev@vger.kernel.org" , Andy Gospodarek Subject: Re: [PATCH V4 0/5] mlx5 ConnectX control misc driver Message-ID: <20240404074850.19ecd52e@kernel.org> In-Reply-To: <20240404122338.GI1723999@nvidia.com> References: <20240322135826.1c4655e2@kernel.org> <20240322154027.5555780a@kernel.org> <1cd2a70c-17b8-4421-b70b-3c0199a84a6a@kernel.org> <0ea32dd4-f408-5870-77eb-f18899f1ad44@gmail.com> <20240402184832.GO11187@unreal> <20240403190012.GV11187@unreal> <20240403170149.7d2b8f2b@kernel.org> <20240404122338.GI1723999@nvidia.com> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 4 Apr 2024 09:23:38 -0300 Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > > "didn't understand the discussion" is an ironic thing for you to +1, > > David. After all my emails about HNS3 RDMA you somehow concluded today > > that I want to make rules for the entire kernel: > > https://lore.kernel.org/all/6faa47b0-27c3-47f9-94be-1ec671d9543c@kernel.org/ > > What if (hypothetically) I tould you that the congestion control > settings in the device FW impacted netdev sourced ethernet trafic as > well? Would you be so sanguine that RDMA should have those settings? We can lawyer the words until the cows come home. The team I work on takes care of both RoCE/IB/pick your fav proto and TCP/IP NICs. It's fairly obvious what is RoCE and what is TCP or user UDP when there are no incentives to act otherwise :| > > And I second what Ed said. I have asked multiple vendors preaching > > impossibilism in this thread to start posting those knobs. I offered > > to do a quick off-list review of the list of knobs they have to give > > a quick yay / nay, so they don't waste time implementing things that > > would get nacked. None of the vendors bothered taking me up on that > > offer. > > As far as configuration/provisioning goes, it is really all or > nothing. > > If a specific site can configure only 90% of the stuff required > because you will NAK the missing 10% it then it is still not usable > and is a wasted effort for everyone. (a) are you saying that the device needs 100% of the knobs to be used? oof, you better warn your prospective customers :S (b) as Ed pointed out some of the "knobs" are just hacks and lazy workarounds so we rejected them for quality reasons; the remaining rejects are because the knobs aren't really device specific, but vendors don't want to extend existing APIs, as it is easier to ship "features" without having a core kernel dependency... > You have never shown that there is a path to 100% with your approach > to devlink. In fact I believe you've said flat out that 100% is not > achievable. Right here you illustrate the fundamental problem again: > there are configurables that already exist in the device that you will > NAK for devlink. > > This is fundamentally why no one is taking you up on these generous > offers to pre-NAK device's designs. You made it explicit that you will > will NAK something and then it is not 100%. > > Saeed has said repeatedly he wants 100% of the endless configurables > in mlx5. You have the manual and know what they are, tell him how to > get to 100% in a few months of work and I will believe you that it is > not impossible. Sorry, are you saying that I'm responsible for a providing a solution to allow arbitrary vendor tools to work and proprietary user space to communicate directly with the proprietary firmware? > Then we only have fwctl's support for debugging and other topics to > argue about :P