Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-kernel+bounces-170910-linux.lists.archive=gmail.com@vger.kernel.org designates 147.75.80.249 as permitted sender) client-ip=147.75.80.249;
Message-ID: <fd2369ed-1e84-4e44-ac80-cd316f8e7051@huaweicloud.com>
Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 11:03:27 +0200
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
From: Jonas Oberhauser <jonas.oberhauser@huaweicloud.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH memory-model 2/4] Documentation/litmus-tests: Demonstrate
 unordered failing cmpxchg
To: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>,
 "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org,
 kernel-team@meta.com, mingo@kernel.org, parri.andrea@gmail.com,
 will@kernel.org, peterz@infradead.org, boqun.feng@gmail.com,
 npiggin@gmail.com, dhowells@redhat.com, j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk,
 luc.maranget@inria.fr, akiyks@gmail.com,
 Frederic Weisbecker <frederic@kernel.org>, Daniel Lustig
 <dlustig@nvidia.com>, Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org>,
 Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
 linux-doc@vger.kernel.org
References: <42a43181-a431-44bd-8aff-6b305f8111ba@paulmck-laptop>
 <20240501232132.1785861-2-paulmck@kernel.org>
 <c97f0529-5a8f-4a82-8e14-0078d4372bdc@huaweicloud.com>
 <16381d02-cb70-4ae5-b24e-aa73afad9aed@huaweicloud.com>
 <2a695f63-6c9a-4837-ac03-f0a5c63daaaf@paulmck-laptop>
 <c168f56f-dfae-4cac-bc61-fc5a93ee3aed@rowland.harvard.edu>
In-Reply-To: <c168f56f-dfae-4cac-bc61-fc5a93ee3aed@rowland.harvard.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Am 5/6/2024 um 9:21 PM schrieb Alan Stern:
> On Mon, May 06, 2024 at 11:00:42AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
>> On Mon, May 06, 2024 at 06:30:45PM +0200, Jonas Oberhauser wrote:
>>> Am 5/6/2024 um 12:05 PM schrieb Jonas Oberhauser:
>>>> Am 5/2/2024 um 1:21 AM schrieb Paul E. McKenney:
>>>>> This commit adds four litmus tests showing that a failing cmpxchg()
>>>>> operation is unordered unless followed by an smp_mb__after_atomic()
>>>>> operation.
>>>>
>>>> So far, my understanding was that all RMW operations without suffix
>>>> (xchg(), cmpxchg(), ...) will be interpreted as F[Mb];...;F[Mb].
> 
> It's more accurate to say that RMW operations without a suffix that
> return a value will be interpreted that way.  So for example,
> atomic_inc() doesn't imply any ordering, because it doesn't return a
> value.
> 

I see, thanks.

>>>> barriers explicitlyinside the cat model, instead of relying on implicit
>>>> conversions internal to herd.
> 
> Don't the annotations in linux-kernel.def and linux-kernel.bell (like
> "noreturn") already make this explicit?

Not that I'm aware. All I can see there is that according to .bell RMW 
don't have an mb mode, but according to .def they do.

How this mb disappears between parsing the code (.def) and interpreting 
it (.bell) is totally implicit. Including how noreturn affects this 
disappeareance.

In fact most tool developers that support LKMM (Viktor, Hernan, and Luc) 
were at least once confused about it. And I think they read those files 
more carefully than I.

https://github.com/herd/herdtools7/issues/384#issuecomment-1132859904

Note that while there's no explicit annotation of noreturn in the .def 
file, at least I can guess based on context that it should be annotated 
on all the functions that don't have _return and for which also a 
version with _return exists.


have fun,
   jonas