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Date: Thu, 30 May 2024 11:32:55 -0700
From: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>
To: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Cc: Ankur Arora <ankur.a.arora@oracle.com>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	tglx@linutronix.de, torvalds@linux-foundation.org,
	rostedt@goodmis.org, mark.rutland@arm.com, juri.lelli@redhat.com,
	joel@joelfernandes.org, raghavendra.kt@amd.com,
	sshegde@linux.ibm.com, boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com,
	konrad.wilk@oracle.com, Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 16/35] preempt,rcu: warn on PREEMPT_RCU=n, preempt=full
Message-ID: <b629f8c9-8900-4317-9ea3-08a8dba7d896@paulmck-laptop>
Reply-To: paulmck@kernel.org
References: <20240528003521.979836-1-ankur.a.arora@oracle.com>
 <20240528003521.979836-17-ankur.a.arora@oracle.com>
 <20240529081404.GI26599@noisy.programming.kicks-ass.net>
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On Wed, May 29, 2024 at 10:14:04AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 05:35:02PM -0700, Ankur Arora wrote:
> > The combination of PREEMPT_RCU=n and (PREEMPT_AUTO=y, preempt=full)
> > works at cross purposes: the RCU read side critical sections disable
> > preemption, while preempt=full schedules eagerly to minimize
> > latency.
> > 
> > Warn if the user is switching to full preemption with PREEMPT_RCU=n.
> > 
> > Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>
> > Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
> > Cc: Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@redhat.com>
> > Cc: Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>
> > Suggested-by: Paul E. McKenney <paulmck@kernel.org>
> > Link: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/842f589e-5ea3-4c2b-9376-d718c14fabf5@paulmck-laptop/
> > Signed-off-by: Ankur Arora <ankur.a.arora@oracle.com>
> > ---
> >  kernel/sched/core.c | 4 ++++
> >  1 file changed, 4 insertions(+)
> > 
> > diff --git a/kernel/sched/core.c b/kernel/sched/core.c
> > index d7804e29182d..df8e333f2d8b 100644
> > --- a/kernel/sched/core.c
> > +++ b/kernel/sched/core.c
> > @@ -8943,6 +8943,10 @@ static void __sched_dynamic_update(int mode)
> >  		break;
> >  
> >  	case preempt_dynamic_full:
> > +		if (!IS_ENABLED(CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU))
> > +			pr_warn("%s: preempt=full is not recommended with CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU=n",
> > +				PREEMPT_MODE);
> > +
> 
> Yeah, so I don't believe this is a viable strategy.
> 
> Firstly, none of these RCU patches are actually about the whole LAZY
> preempt scheme, they apply equally well (arguably better) to the
> existing PREEMPT_DYNAMIC thing.
> 
> Secondly, esp. with the LAZY thing, you are effectively running FULL at
> all times. It's just that some of the preemptions, typically those of
> the normal scheduling class are somewhat delayed. However RT/DL classes
> are still insta preempt.
> 
> Meaning that if you run anything in the realtime classes you're running
> a fully preemptible kernel. As such, RCU had better be able to deal with
> it.
> 
> So no, I don't believe this is right.

At one point, lazy preemption selected PREEMPT_COUNT (which I am
not seeing in this version, perhaps due to blindness on my part).
Of course, selecting PREEMPT_COUNT would result in !PREEMPT_RCU kernel's
rcu_read_lock() explicitly disabling preemption, thus avoiding preemption
(including lazy preemption) in RCU read-side critical sections.

Ankur, what am I missing here?

							Thanx, Paul