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From: "Huang, Ying" <ying.huang@intel.com>
To: Byungchul Park <byungchul@sk.com>
Cc: <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,  <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
  <linux-mm@kvack.org>,  <kernel_team@skhynix.com>,  <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
  <iamjoonsoo.kim@lge.com>,  <rientjes@google.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] mm: let kswapd work again for node that used to be
 hopeless but may not now
In-Reply-To: <20240604084533.GA68919@system.software.com> (Byungchul Park's
	message of "Tue, 4 Jun 2024 17:45:33 +0900")
References: <20240604072323.10886-1-byungchul@sk.com>
	<87bk4hcf7h.fsf@yhuang6-desk2.ccr.corp.intel.com>
	<20240604084533.GA68919@system.software.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2024 16:57:17 +0800
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Byungchul Park <byungchul@sk.com> writes:

> On Tue, Jun 04, 2024 at 03:57:54PM +0800, Huang, Ying wrote:
>> Byungchul Park <byungchul@sk.com> writes:
>> 
>> > Changes from v1:
>> > 	1. Don't allow to resume kswapd if the system is under memory
>> > 	   pressure that might affect direct reclaim by any chance, like
>> > 	   if NR_FREE_PAGES is less than (low wmark + min wmark)/2.
>> >
>> > --->8---
>> > From 6c73fc16b75907f5da9e6b33aff86bf7d7c9dd64 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
>> > From: Byungchul Park <byungchul@sk.com>
>> > Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2024 15:27:56 +0900
>> > Subject: [PATCH v2] mm: let kswapd work again for node that used to be hopeless but may not now
>> >
>> > A system should run with kswapd running in background when under memory
>> > pressure, such as when the available memory level is below the low water
>> > mark and there are reclaimable folios.
>> >
>> > However, the current code let the system run with kswapd stopped if
>> > kswapd has been stopped due to more than MAX_RECLAIM_RETRIES failures
>> > until direct reclaim will do for that, even if there are reclaimable
>> > folios that can be reclaimed by kswapd.  This case was observed in the
>> > following scenario:
>> >
>> >    CONFIG_NUMA_BALANCING enabled
>> >    sysctl_numa_balancing_mode set to NUMA_BALANCING_MEMORY_TIERING
>> >    numa node0 (500GB local DRAM, 128 CPUs)
>> >    numa node1 (100GB CXL memory, no CPUs)
>> >    swap off
>> >
>> >    1) Run a workload with big anon pages e.g. mmap(200GB).
>> >    2) Continue adding the same workload to the system.
>> >    3) The anon pages are placed in node0 by promotion/demotion.
>> >    4) kswapd0 stops because of the unreclaimable anon pages in node0.
>> >    5) Kill the memory hoggers to restore the system.
>> >
>> > After restoring the system at 5), the system starts to run without
>> > kswapd.  Even worse, tiering mechanism is no longer able to work since
>> > the mechanism relies on kswapd for demotion.
>> 
>> We have run into the situation that kswapd is kept in failure state for
>> long in a multiple tiers system.  I think that your solution is too
>
> My solution just gives a chance for kswapd to work again even if
> kswapd_failures >= MAX_RECLAIM_RETRIES, if there are potential
> reclaimable folios.  That's it.
>
>> limited, because OOM killing may not happen, while the access pattern of
>
> I don't get this.  OOM will happen as is, through direct reclaim.

A system that fails to reclaim via kswapd may succeed to reclaim via
direct reclaim, because more CPUs are used to scanning the page tables.

In a system with NUMA balancing based page promotion and page demotion
enabled, page promotion will wake up kswapd, but kswapd may fail in some
situations.  But page promotion will no trigger direct reclaim or OOM.

>> the workloads may change.  We have a preliminary and simple solution for
>> this as follows,
>> 
>> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/vishal/tiering.git/commit/?h=tiering-0.8&id=17a24a354e12d4d4675d78481b358f668d5a6866
>
> Whether tiering is involved or not, the same problem can arise if
> kswapd gets stopped due to kswapd_failures >= MAX_RECLAIM_RETRIES.

Your description is about tiering too.  Can you describe a situation
without tiering?

--
Best Regards,
Huang, Ying

> 	Byungchul
>
>> where we will try to wake up kswapd to check every 10 seconds if kswapd
>> is in failure state.  This is another possible solution.
>> 
>> > However, the node0 has pages newly allocated after 5), that might or
>> > might not be reclaimable.  Since those are potentially reclaimable, it's
>> > worth hopefully trying reclaim by allowing kswapd to work again.
>> >
>> 
>> [snip]
>> 
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>> Huang, Ying