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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:22:08 +0200
From: Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch>
To: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6nig?= <christian.koenig@amd.com>
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Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next v10 02/14] net: page_pool: create hooks for
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	Donald Hunter <donald.hunter@gmail.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Richard Henderson <richard.henderson@linaro.org>,
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References: <CAHS8izMU_nMEr04J9kXiX6rJqK4nQKA+W-enKLhNxvK7=H2pgA@mail.gmail.com>
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 <eb237e6e-3626-4435-8af5-11ed3931b0ac@gmail.com>
 <be2d140f-db0f-4d15-967c-972ea6586b5c@kernel.org>
 <20240607145247.GG791043@ziepe.ca>
 <45803740-442c-4298-b47e-2d87ae5a6012@davidwei.uk>
 <54975459-7a5a-46ff-a9ae-dc16ceffbab4@gmail.com>
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In-Reply-To: <cdbc0d5f-bfbc-4f58-a6dd-c13b0bb5ff1c@amd.com>

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 02:38:18PM +0200, Christian K?nig wrote:
> Am 10.06.24 um 14:16 schrieb Jason Gunthorpe:
> > On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 02:07:01AM +0100, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> > > On 6/10/24 01:37, David Wei wrote:
> > > > On 2024-06-07 17:52, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> > > > > IMHO it seems to compose poorly if you can only use the io_uring
> > > > > lifecycle model with io_uring registered memory, and not with DMABUF
> > > > > memory registered through Mina's mechanism.
> > > > By this, do you mean io_uring must be exclusively used to use this
> > > > feature?
> > > > 
> > > > And you'd rather see the two decoupled, so userspace can register w/ say
> > > > dmabuf then pass it to io_uring?
> > > Personally, I have no clue what Jason means. You can just as
> > > well say that it's poorly composable that write(2) to a disk
> > > cannot post a completion into a XDP ring, or a netlink socket,
> > > or io_uring's main completion queue, or name any other API.
> > There is no reason you shouldn't be able to use your fast io_uring
> > completion and lifecycle flow with DMABUF backed memory. Those are not
> > widly different things and there is good reason they should work
> > together.
> 
> Well there is the fundamental problem that you can't use io_uring to
> implement the semantics necessary for a dma_fence.
> 
> That's why we had to reject the io_uring work on DMA-buf sharing from Google
> a few years ago.
> 
> But this only affects the dma_fence synchronization part of DMA-buf, but
> *not* the general buffer sharing.

More precisely, it only impacts the userspace/data access implicit
synchronization part of dma-buf. For tracking buffer movements like on
invalidations/refault with a dynamic dma-buf importer/exporter I think the
dma-fence rules are acceptable. At least they've been for rdma drivers.

But the escape hatch is to (temporarily) pin the dma-buf, which is exactly
what direct I/O also does when accessing pages. So aside from the still
unsolved question on how we should account/track pinned dma-buf, there
shouldn't be an issue. Or at least I'm failing to see one.

And for synchronization to data access the dma-fence stuff on dma-buf is
anyway rather deprecated on the gpu side too, exactly because of all these
limitations. On the gpu side we've been moving to free-standing
drm_syncobj instead, but those are fairly gpu specific and any other
subsystem should be able to just reuse what they have already to signal
transaction completions.

Cheers, Sima

> 
> Regards,
> Christian.
> 
> > 
> > Pretending they are totally different just because two different
> > people wrote them is a very siloed view.
> > 
> > > The devmem TCP callback can implement it in a way feasible to
> > > the project, but it cannot directly post events to an unrelated
> > > API like io_uring. And devmem attaches buffers to a socket,
> > > for which a ring for returning buffers might even be a nuisance.
> > If you can't compose your io_uring completion mechanism with a DMABUF
> > provided backing store then I think it needs more work.
> > 
> > Jason
> 

-- 
Daniel Vetter
Software Engineer, Intel Corporation
http://blog.ffwll.ch