Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S932303AbYCEBnU (ORCPT ); Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:43:20 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1753033AbYCEBnE (ORCPT ); Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:43:04 -0500 Received: from barikada.upol.cz ([158.194.242.200]:36642 "EHLO barikada.upol.cz" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1755321AbYCEBnD (ORCPT ); Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:43:03 -0500 To: Andi Kleen , Linus Torvalds Cc: "Pekka Enberg" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mingo@elte.hu, vegard.nossum@gmail.com, Andrew Morton User-Agent: slrn + jed (x86_64-pc-linux-glibc-debian) Subject: text processing (Re: Google's Summer of Code?) In-Reply-To: References: <84144f020803041045i70bbb05l6983bd14c5bcc91a@mail.gmail.com> <84144f020803041155k222c13ecu13c8c9534ced87e5@mail.gmail.com> <20080304121339.a3b2483f.akpm@linux-foundation.org> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 03:01:58 +0100 Message-Id: From: Oleg Verych Organization: Palacky University in Olomouc, experimental physics department X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-glibc-debian Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3792 Lines: 116 Andi Kleen @ Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:38:46 +0100: > Andrew Morton [] >> http://kernelnewbies.org/KernelProjects >> >> There are surely many more things we could put there. >> >> I receive a dribble of emails about the setrlimit64/getrlimit64 one, so >> people are looking at it, and are looking to do work. (I haven't usefully >> responded to those emails, btw - am not sure how my name got on that one - >> probably Ulrich would be better). > > http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=119981029708530&w=2 > > is also a candidate. There are still quite a lot of unconverted > drivers over. And you've saw first patch there... I'd say, that i see similar things here (LKML, kernel), wrt shell usage and text processing. * checkpatch instead of hard-armed editors (*The* tools of programmers), with one's (linux, glibc, bash, whatever) source-friendly capabilities (error/coding-style highlight, easy call-graph, param checking, security audit(+audit scripts), etc.) * linux-2.6/scripts/unifdef.c instead of coding style + simple script (reinventing of compilers is a dream of CS professors of all times :) * much of te `make` based stuff * text processing, which is source code processing, if we are in Open Source, has no place in + design (super-macro constructs --> C code), + auditing (stupid vmsplice() case *and* first ``fix'') + testing (writing source in parallel with constructing userspace test programs, based on same source; once all is done, script generates/constructs kernel part) * and perl is everywhere On my `sed` scripts i was getting (from Sam): "Because your shell script is unreadable by normal human beings[*] while the perl script for people with a bit of perl fu can read it and fix/modify it. We want tools that can be maintained and enhanced by most people. [*] Normal human beings are people with same level of shell scripting/sed skills that I have just to put that straight." "Linecount is down but so is maintainability / extendability." So, no tools or perl is better than nothing? I don't say, i will solve Andi's quest, i just lost interest. But it is damn interesting one! One, that many script kiddies will do in minutes, if they would knew `sed` and a bit of UNIX practice, but not perl, C, diff, git, etc. So, teach youngsters about "maintainability / extendability" and "Normal human beings", or what? OTOH, Who are teachers? Just two points to show skill mismatch, i.e. for + managing/manipulating source, + designing, writing, maintaining correct kernel code. Latter isn't for n00bs, right? * multi-line grep Andi Kleen http://mid.gmane.org/20080109000358.GF2117@one.firstfloor.org * full and correct greping of linux style function definitions Linus Torvalds http://mid.gmane.org/1054519757.161606@palladium.transmeta.com All in one shot: # print linux-style function definitions sed -n ' /^[^[:blank:]#/].*[),]$/{ /,$/{ :_start; N; s=)$=&= ; t_end ; b_start; :_end; }; p}' kernel/*c | pager #_____ One may not know `sed` at all (but i glad to explain and share everything, i know), *patterns* and expressions are key things. Once you have approved and try-and-buy tested one, everything else is pure technical thing. Maybe somebody outstanding (like Rusty) can do that with CPP, i don't know; `sed` is just more familiar thing for this. Silence in reply i will understand quite right, i might be wrong. I just can't see all that stuff not having much skilled people involved/interested. -- -o--=O`C #oo'L O <___=E M -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/