Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:38:52 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:38:43 -0500 Received: from ns.suse.de ([213.95.15.193]:27396 "HELO Cantor.suse.de") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:38:28 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:38:24 +0100 From: Dave Jones To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Eli Carter , "Michael Lazarou (ETL)" , Linux Kernel List Subject: Re: Aunt Tillie builds a kernel (was Re: ISA hardware discovery -- the elegant solution) Message-ID: <20020114193823.H15139@suse.de> Mail-Followup-To: Dave Jones , "Eric S. Raymond" , Eli Carter , "Michael Lazarou (ETL)" , Linux Kernel List In-Reply-To: <20020114111141.A14332@thyrsus.com> <3C430E89.E65DCEDC@inet.com> <20020114125228.B14747@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020114125228.B14747@thyrsus.com>; from esr@thyrsus.com on Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 12:52:28PM -0500 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 12:52:28PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > She complains of occasional lockups, and that she gets skips when > playing her Guy Lombardo MP3s. Melvin says, over the phone: "Yup, > that version had some VM problems. And you need the low-latency stuff > that went in three releases ago. ... and the 200 patches that the vendor added that she's become so used to just being there... > Just click on the 'kernel update' icon on your desktop." *sigh*, and the package updater to get a new kernel for $distro is insufficient because ? distro kernel update has the following advantages. - Comes complete with the 200 patches already applied. - Is _tested_ by $distrovendor. - If it screws up, and Aunt Tillie shelled out for support (which of course, she did being the 'needing support' type) $distrovendor will help. Ringing support and saying "Melvin told me to install a new kernel, and now my box doesn't boot" may not be a supportable scenario for all vendors. > So why doesn't she use Red Hat or Mandrake's RPM update? Maybe she's > running something else. Red Hat & Mandrake are not the only distros with online update, in fact, it's probably considered a must-have feature for most distros these days. > (You ain't going to tell me Aunt Tillie is ready > for Debian apt-get, either.) Wait a minute. Not ready for 'apt-get', but ready to build & run a kernel made up of a collection of random patches on Melvin's say-so ? > Maybe she wants a kernel that's compiled > for her AMD Athlon K6 rather than a 386. Various distro vendors update facilities give you this option. > OK, so she doesn't know what processor she has Some even autodetect. > We have the technology to do all of this now; Indeed. It's called YaST, Red Carpet, Mandrake Update, apt-get, apt-rpm, and a plethora of other such tools. > It takes a different way of thinking than most hackers are used to. Yup. One where reinventing the wheel seems appropriate. > We're proud of our mad programming skillz and our ability to wrestle > with arcana. That pride isn't a bad thing -- except when it gets in > the way of designing systems that Aunt Tillie can use. The systems are designed, and the punchline is, that they work, and they're being used out there today. Dave. -- | Dave Jones. http://www.codemonkey.org.uk | SuSE Labs - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/