Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751233AbZC0ECy (ORCPT ); Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:02:54 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1750913AbZC0ECo (ORCPT ); Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:02:44 -0400 Received: from smtp1.linux-foundation.org ([140.211.169.13]:43557 "EHLO smtp1.linux-foundation.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1750883AbZC0ECo (ORCPT ); Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:02:44 -0400 Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:59:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Linus Torvalds X-X-Sender: torvalds@localhost.localdomain To: Andrew Morton cc: Theodore Tso , David Rees , Jesper Krogh , Linux Kernel Mailing List Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.29 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <49C87B87.4020108@krogh.cc> <72dbd3150903232346g5af126d7sb5ad4949a7b5041f@mail.gmail.com> <49C88C80.5010803@krogh.cc> <72dbd3150903241200v38720ca0x392c381f295bdea@mail.gmail.com> <20090325183011.GN32307@mit.edu> <20090325220530.GR32307@mit.edu> <20090326171148.9bf8f1ec.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <20090326174704.cd36bf7b.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <20090326182519.d576d703.akpm@linux-foundation.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LFD 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3343 Lines: 67 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > We should aim to get it right. The "user space can tweak any numbers they > want" is ALWAYS THE WRONG ANSWER. It's a cop-out, but more importantly, > it's a cop-out that doesn't even work, and that just results in everybody > having different setups. Then nobody is happy. In fact it results in "everybody" just having the distro defaults, which in some cases then depend on things like which particular version they initially installed things with (because some decisions end up being codified in long-term memory by that initial install - like the size of the journal when you mkfs'd your filesystem, or the alignment of your partitions, or whatever). The exception, of course, ends up being power-users that then tweak things on their own. Me, I may be a power user, but I absolutely refuse to touch default values. If they are wrong, they should be fixed. I don't want to add "relatime" to my /etc/fstab, because then the next time I install, I'll forget - and if I really need to do that, then the kernel should have already done it for me as the default choice. I also don't want to say that "Fedora should just do it right" (I'll complain about things Fedora does badly, but not setting magic values in /proc is not one of them), because then even if Fedora _were_ to get things right, others won't. Or even worse, somebody will point that SuSE or Ubuntu _did_ do it right, but the distro I happen to use is doing the wrong thing. And yes, I could do my own site-specific tweaks, but again, why should I? If the tweak really is needed, I should put it in the generic kernel. I don't do anything odd. End result: regardless of scenario, depending on user-land tweaking is always the wrong thing. It's the wrong thing for distributions (they'd all need to do the exact same thing anyway, or chaos reigns, so it might as well be a kernel default), and it's the wrong thing for individuals (because 99.9% of individuals won't know what to do, and the remaining 0.1% should be trying to improve _other_ peoples experiences, not just their own!). The only excuse _ever_ for user-land tweaking is if you do something really odd. Say that you want to get the absolutely best OLTP numbers you can possibly get - with no regards for _any_ other workload. In that case, you want to tweak the numbers for that exact load, and the exact machine that runs it - and the result is going to be a totally worthless number (since it's just benchmarketing and doesn't actually reflect any real world scenario), but hey, that's what benchmarketing is all about. Or say that you really are a very embedded environment, with a very specific load. A router, a cellphone, a base station, whatever - you do one thing, and you're not trying to be a general purpose machine. Then you can tweak for that load. But not otherwise. If you don't have any magical odd special workloads, you shouldn't need to tweak a single kernel knob. Because if you need to, then the kernel is doing something wrong to begin with. Linus -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/