Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751971AbZG3RLt (ORCPT ); Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:11:49 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751863AbZG3RLr (ORCPT ); Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:11:47 -0400 Received: from xc.sipsolutions.net ([83.246.72.84]:58011 "EHLO sipsolutions.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751851AbZG3RLq (ORCPT ); Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:11:46 -0400 Subject: Re: [wireless] rt2870sta BUGs on shutdown, 2.6.30.2->git.today+git.wireless.today From: Johannes Berg To: Ivo van Doorn Cc: Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz , Luis Correia , Mike Galbraith , linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, LKML , "John W. Linville" In-Reply-To: <200907301852.28172.IvDoorn@gmail.com> References: <1248945770.7910.24.camel@marge.simson.net> <200907301517.57811.bzolnier@gmail.com> <200907301852.28172.IvDoorn@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-KVNGf1KqKc/ebASAh6eJ" Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:11:02 +0200 Message-Id: <1248973862.22552.4.camel@johannes.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.27.4 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3706 Lines: 84 --=-KVNGf1KqKc/ebASAh6eJ Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2009-07-30 at 18:52 +0200, Ivo van Doorn wrote: > [some text expressing his frustration] This is exactly why I was against staging all the time. Now suddenly "The Crap" seems like a viable alternative. WAKE UP PEOPLE. The code is not useful. Just look at the code that Mike pasted into his email. That alone should be enough to send cold shivers down your spine! What staging has achieved here is giving the crap vendor code a blessing, receiving it welcomingly and forgivingly instead of saying "well screw you, go ahead and ship this to your users but don't ever say you support Linux well" ... now even some hackers and just just "dumb users" think that the crap in staging could possibly at some point become useful code! It won't. EVER. No matter _how_ much you clean it up, it will NEVER fit into the code scheme that everything else wireless has adopted. And, Bartlomiej, don't give me the straw-man argument of user support, if all you cared about were users you could well have _distros_ ship the crap. They don't want to, of course, support this, for good reason! As long as the vendors don't wake up, and some people see The Crap as a viable alternative, good hardware support will never become a reality. Look what you've done, really! You've frustrated the only person (Ivo) who cares about giving these devices _proper_ support to a point where he's no longer really interested in it because he's always measured against The Crap right away. And that's perfectly understandable! Effectively, you're saying that while he may have done good work, you don't care about it because it's not perfect. Mike at least was willing to try rt2x00 and work with it. And now you're coming out of the woods and claiming that The Crap works?! When the thread started with how it crashed? Get real. In the end, while the letters you typed into your email claim to say the opposite, the message of your email is that nobody should care about rt2x00 and that the vendor driver should remain the status quo. Well, in that case, get lost, crawl into the staging list and at least don't bother us with The Crap. Such attitude is part of the problem, the other big part is that vendors can now claim their hardware "has mainline Linux support (in the staging area)" and nobody will be the wiser. So how about you help work on it, or think about a solution instead? johannes --=-KVNGf1KqKc/ebASAh6eJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAABAgAGBQJKcdQjAAoJEODzc/N7+QmaoQsQAIdwgcaHQ18Tiw1g7TFuCBXE b4O57ZRkFZszl5+lq97aizx3quZy+VBeUAahqxI9M4DkFCfxF0WzCQHm6mZL/6l+ WOFtZlT1cUqqfX9mU3ifezbtrMEUuOOsbtQZmSIDFnQlIyhs5bEaKhZvdmcTb6vv ltRTOAXb0Pcpgb7sa0axEZ8WesfZ3m3Z/9WofS5y2+szzjeD02HAfukcXIhxhR8V l02daslPLMddNlHWbJos5cSShjhJ/xjpjyikDXvVfgewPauwT1TvAa13xUaqF0AF 9XuNB0suGGGNnqFHSBGpoH0cXJRw4kiWWmEIxScIFq11heRrQccYLYWquIUjvYhO S0b8W/pP4X3ZR5cvKV06G3pJaknRyk7kvLn39KEJQjccH5Y8O/IjgA7/OaAwX9iN o7B19dXh4JvBvlShKWL230VQRZEz8Cvh+D7enQ9wCMFV/eAzDghf16z2+Alhqoe1 o6Z/wv7Ap0Udi4CRBs3RYYVwqXqe5Pwe8CaVez1PcyqQipwDoAu1thELU8/obXl5 /qyAGXh/rlw5OGrwgWRLqssaM5Ly4sYPzMjo9hZ9VD1hTw0MjHQimjzdqkMV/WMs kIa7eNu82RGo6FW+ETBRgRNLsKfR2YTcriq+0WCVbadX0x73gGSYH6IM5m4VnpKm 1C4X62vGdCrXC6I9GzbX =+ARg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-KVNGf1KqKc/ebASAh6eJ-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/