Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1759857AbZIQS7g (ORCPT ); Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:59:36 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1758619AbZIQS7g (ORCPT ); Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:59:36 -0400 Received: from zelda.netsplit.com ([87.194.19.211]:49359 "EHLO zelda.netsplit.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1759148AbZIQS7f (ORCPT ); Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:59:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PATCH] Remove broken by design and by implementation devtmpfs maintenance disaster From: Scott James Remnant To: Arjan van de Ven Cc: Alan Cox , Kay Sievers , "Eric W. Biederman" , Linus Torvalds , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Greg Kroah-Hartmann In-Reply-To: <20090917194725.355b761c@infradead.org> References: <20090917141303.428fe73c@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> <1253205332.4718.9.camel@quest> <20090917194725.355b761c@infradead.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-ccN/QQbpF5T3loNGeG33" Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:59:16 +0100 Message-Id: <1253213956.4718.18.camel@quest> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2710 Lines: 77 --=-ccN/QQbpF5T3loNGeG33 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 19:47 +0200, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > > I don't really see the issue here. If Arjan doesn't want to use > > devtmpfs for Moblin, he doesn't have to. >=20 > my biggest objection was to the use of boot time as argument. > That was and still is deceiving and false. There may be other arguments > for devfs, but I'm not going to get in the middle of those. But boot > time isn't it. >=20 Right, I don't disagree. For some distributions devtmpfs allows them to do things without running udev early; we long ago restructured Ubuntu so that udev is one of the first things we run, therefore don't have that particular problem. =46rom my POV devtmpfs is useful because it means we can do away with udev entirely in certain situations, especially the installer and probably our initramfs when we need one too. The "statically make /dev from /sys" tools don't help, because /dev needs to be kept up to date. And udev is too heavy, or the increased maintenance of having a special installer udev is too annoying, etc. devtmpfs happens to be a neat solution to that problem. > I do share frustration with Eric on how Kay and Greg have handled this. > It really felt like a combination of bullying, ignoring any contrarian > argument and just ramming stuff down. Not at all unlike the original > devfs fiasco. It has left me with a pretty bad taste in my mouth and > am pretty disappointed; I expected better. >=20 I'm not a kernel developer, I'm a plumbing developer, but from my outside perspective it seems like the contrary arguments have had a bit of an agenda as well and have taken a "must not go in at any cost" attitude. That I find odd. It's not as if this is critical path, or going in at the expense of other functionality or code. It's just another useful option for people who can find a use for it. Is that really such a tragedy to have? Anyway, I should start packing and stuff. See you next week! Scott --=20 Scott James Remnant scott@canonical.com --=-ccN/QQbpF5T3loNGeG33 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkqyhwQACgkQSnQiFMl4yK6eXgCfWQnKh/vRnt92nR2sD991PrgX Fq0An0F0hSZyvROr6M2B5A8/46+oFRRX =vkbR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-ccN/QQbpF5T3loNGeG33-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/