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Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:08:51 +0200
Message-ID: <520f0cf10909231308y7c82227cvf19a36ae59b6a6cb@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: mailing list for trace users
From: John Kacur <jkacur@gmail.com>
To: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Cc: David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
       Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
       Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
       "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
       rostedt@goodmis.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
       mathieu.desnoyers@polymtl.ca, a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl,
       fweisbec@gmail.com, acme@redhat.com, mhiramat@redhat.com,
       postmaster@vger.kernel.org
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On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
>
> * John Kacur <jkacur@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
>> >
>> > * David Miller <davem@davemloft.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
>> >> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:47:25 +0200
>> >>
>> >> > Could you please also create the linux-perf-users list, for perf
>> >> > events and the perf tool related user questions? (We have asked for
>> >> > this before but must have gotten lost somewhere)
>> >>
>> >> I think your communities are similar enough and small enough that you
>> >> could share this list.
>> >
>> > It's two separate subsystems. There's a lot of non-tracing aspects of
>> > performance events: it does profiling, counting, latency analysis, etc.
>> > The tool is named 'perf', the subsystem is named 'performance events',
>> > and the most typical workflows dont do any tracing.
>> >
>> > And i beg to differ about the size of the communities. It's just been
>> > added upstream...
>> >
>> > Also, what is the policy for adding new lists to vger.kernel.org? If a
>> > subsystem maintainer asks for a list named after a core kernel
>> > subsystem, how frequently is it rejected, and on what basis?
>> >
>> > I find it sad that such an arbitrary looking negative decision from you
>> > forces a user list away from vger. I wouldnt mind it to be closed if it
>> > has no significant traffic after a year or lifetime or so - many vger
>> > lists have almost no traffic to begin with.
>> >
>> > Also, i cannot help but to observe the fact that you've fought the
>> > original perfcounters project in a very ugly and public way less
>> > than a year ago. Dont you think that you 'deciding' this matter in
>> > such a negative fashion is a conflict of interest?
>> >
>> > ? ? ? ?Ingo
>>
>> Yikes - Ingo, I don't want to spawn a long thread here about what to
>> call the list, but as a native English speaker, I think that
>> "linux-trace-users" sounds much nicer than "linux-tracing-users".
>
> That argument i can and will accept of course ...
>
> The "sorry, i ignored you twice and now it's unfortunately too late"
> excuse given by David i will not ;-)
>
> Note that this mail you replied to was about
> linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org, which David refused to create,
> suggesting that perf users should mail to
> linux-trace-users@vger.kernel.org instead. (which is a curious argument
> - if you use a tool named 'perf', or if you are using PAPI to count
> events, would it occur to you to mail to that list?)
>
> ? ? ? ?Ingo
>

Oh, for that matter, as a user of both tracing and the perf tool, I think it IS
appropriate to have separate lists.

John
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