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From: Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz <bzolnier@gmail.com>
To: Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de>
Subject: Re: removing existing working drivers via staging
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:58:33 +0200
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Cc: david@lang.hm, Stefan Richter <stefanr@s5r6.in-berlin.de>,
       "linux-kernel" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
       Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910142213590.22169@asgard.lang.hm> <200910152020.13080.bzolnier@gmail.com> <20091015184656.GA29858@suse.de>
In-Reply-To: <20091015184656.GA29858@suse.de>
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On Thursday 15 October 2009 20:46:56 Greg KH wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 08:20:12PM +0200, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote:
> > On Thursday 15 October 2009 19:49:32 Greg KH wrote:
> > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 07:42:40PM +0200, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote:
> > > > On Thursday 15 October 2009 18:47:26 Greg KH wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 09:39:51AM -0700, david@lang.hm wrote:
> > > > > > however, what I think I saw proposed was to move drivers that need to be 
> > > > > > 'cleaned up', to staging and then dropping them if they don't get cleaned.
> > > > > 
> > > > > What is "proposed" is the following:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 	- For drivers currently in the kernel tree, that the subsystem
> > > > > 	  maintainer, for whatever reason, feels is obsolete / broken /
> > > > > 	  needs major cleaning / wants to get rid of, can be submitted
> > > > > 	  to the staging maintainer to be moved to the drivers/staging/
> > > > > 	  directory.
> > > > 
> > > > This is insanity and opens a door for various forms of abuse.
> > > 
> > > What do you mean by this?  What kind of "abuse"?
> > 
> > Typical situation:
> > 
> > You have driver for _really_ difficult hardware used by minority of total
> > users of a given subsystem.  Said driver has no major problems except being
> > f*cking complicated (because of hardware) so it stays in the way of future
> > changes.
> > 
> > With the current system people making bigger changes have to comprehend
> > that difficult stuff [*].  This is a good thing in the long-term since it
> > results in the better overall system understanding, better knowledge of
> > "DO's and DON'T's" and better users' experience.
> > 
> > Now with the proposed scheme it is sufficient to throw said driver into
> > staging for few weeks and make future changes.  Before users even notice
> > and complain they are screwed already since bringing the driver back is
> > no longer possible without big effort (+ subsystem is still evolving)..
> 
> But a driver in staging still has to be able to build, api changes are
> not able to be ignored in it.

Sure, it will build at the of being submitted to staging..

> > This will result in a "new kernel new hardware" world that some distro
> > people have been silently trying to accomplish and in this brave new world
> > few key people have way too much advantage over everyone else.
> 
> I don't understand what you are referring to here.

See my PM.
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