Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1756983AbZJPHlg (ORCPT ); Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:41:36 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1756748AbZJPHlf (ORCPT ); Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:41:35 -0400 Received: from mx3.mail.elte.hu ([157.181.1.138]:45009 "EHLO mx3.mail.elte.hu" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1756745AbZJPHle (ORCPT ); Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:41:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:40:39 +0200 From: Ingo Molnar To: david@lang.hm Cc: Greg KH , Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz , Stefan Richter , linux-kernel Subject: Re: removing existing working drivers via staging Message-ID: <20091016074039.GC30019@elte.hu> References: <200910151942.40259.bzolnier@gmail.com> <20091015174932.GA3595@suse.de> <200910152020.13080.bzolnier@gmail.com> <20091015184656.GA29858@suse.de> <20091015191641.GB19467@elte.hu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-ELTE-SpamScore: 0.0 X-ELTE-SpamLevel: X-ELTE-SpamCheck: no X-ELTE-SpamVersion: ELTE 2.0 X-ELTE-SpamCheck-Details: score=0.0 required=5.9 tests=none autolearn=no SpamAssassin version=3.2.5 _SUMMARY_ Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2253 Lines: 57 * david@lang.hm wrote: > On Thu, 15 Oct 2009, Ingo Molnar wrote: > >> * david@lang.hm wrote: >> >>>> But a driver in staging still has to be able to build, api changes >>>> are not able to be ignored in it. >>> >>> a driver in staging will be able to build, but a driver that was >>> removed after 6-9 months that a user discovered the removal of a year >>> later when they upgraded to a new distro release (say a normal ubuntu >>> release after staying on the old one for the 18 month support period) >>> is likely to need significant work to catch up with kernel changes in >>> the meanwhile. >> >> Where do you get the 6-9 months from? Greg said he'll wait 3 kernel >> releases. Here's the timeline of that: > > that was the timeframe listed in the prior discussion, 3 kernel releases > * 2-3 months/release works out to this We do 4 kernel releases a year - that's almost exactly 3 months per release - not 2-3 months. It's one release per season / per quarter. That is a very natural frequency for releases: both in the biological and in the socio/economic spectrum. Look at the release dates for version x, x-4 and x-8, they line up very nicely: v2.6.31: Date: Wed Sep 9 15:13:59 2009 -0700 v2.6.27: Date: Thu Oct 9 15:13:53 2008 -0700 v2.6.23: Date: Tue Oct 9 13:31:38 2007 -0700 And that kind of release date reliability is intentional and i think can be expected to continue in the future as well. If you want to base products on Linux you really want to know the latencies of upstreaming and what to know when a driver or a kernel feature you'll rely on will be released. [ .31 was a bit earlier - partly due to the KS (which always delays the cycle a tiny bit so it's good to save up for it) - and i'd personally not mind if we did the .33 merge window before Christmas, to avoid the distraction right in the middle of the holliday season. ] Plus the inevitable fuzz of 1-2 weeks depending on the momentary QA situation. Ingo -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/