Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1753684AbZKAVZq (ORCPT ); Sun, 1 Nov 2009 16:25:46 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1753647AbZKAVZg (ORCPT ); Sun, 1 Nov 2009 16:25:36 -0500 Received: from agrajag.mansr.com ([78.86.181.102]:55674 "EHLO mail.mansr.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753447AbZKAVZa convert rfc822-to-8bit (ORCPT ); Sun, 1 Nov 2009 16:25:30 -0500 X-Greylist: delayed 626 seconds by postgrey-1.27 at vger.kernel.org; Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:25:29 EST To: "Ryan C. Gordon" Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: FatELF patches... References: <1257103201.2865.6.camel@chumley> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?= Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:15:07 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Ryan C. Gordon's message of "Sun, 1 Nov 2009 15:59:56 -0500 (EST)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1008 (Gnus v5.10.8) XEmacs/21.4.22 (Instant Classic, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2394 Lines: 56 "Ryan C. Gordon" writes: >> Am I the only one who sees this as nothing bloat for its own sake? > > I posted a fairly large list of benefits here: http://icculus.org/fatelf/ I've read the list, and I can't find anything I agree with. Honestly. > Some are more far-fetched than others, I will grant. Also, I suspect most > people will find one benefit and ten things they don't care about, but > that benefit is different for different people. I'm confident that the > benefits far outweigh the size of the kernel patch. It's not the size of the kernel patch I'm worried about. What worries me is the disk space needed when *all* my executables and libraries are suddenly 3, 4, or 5 times the size they need to be. There is also the issue of speed to launch these things. It *has* to be slower than executing a native file directly. >> Did I miss a massive drop in intelligence of Linux users, causing them >> to no longer be capable of picking the correct file themselves? > > Also known as "market saturation." :) > > (But really, there are benefits beyond helping dumb people, even if > helping dumb people wasn't a worthwhile goal in itself.) It's far too easy to use computers already. That's the reason for the spam problem. Besides, clueless users would be installing a distro, which could easily download the correct packages automatically. In fact, that is what they already do. The bootable installation media would still need to be distributed separately, since the boot formats differ vastly between architectures. It is not possible to create a CD/DVD that is bootable on multiple system types (with a few exceptions). >> As an embedded systems guy, I'm more concerned about precious flash >> space going to waste than about some hypothetical convenience. > > I wouldn't imagine this is the target audience for FatELF. For embedded > devices, just use the same ELF files you've always used. Of course I will. The question is, will everybody else? I'm seeing enough bloat in the embedded world as it is without handing out new ways to make it even easier. -- M?ns Rullg?rd mans@mansr.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/