Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S932611AbZKDVLo (ORCPT ); Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:11:44 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S932384AbZKDVLn (ORCPT ); Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:11:43 -0500 Received: from artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz ([195.113.26.195]:36200 "EHLO artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S932330AbZKDVLm (ORCPT ); Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:11:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 22:11:47 +0100 (CET) From: Mikulas Patocka To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu cc: Martin Nybo Andersen , Alan Cox , "Ryan C. Gordon" , =?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?= , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: package managers [was: FatELF patches...] In-Reply-To: <23950.1257367315@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: References: <20091104165407.1481bc29@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> <200911041848.48721.tweek@tweek.dk> <22108.1257364949@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <23950.1257367315@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> X-Personality-Disorder: Schizoid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2062 Lines: 41 > > > No, all they need to do is bump the .so version number. > > > > That's what Debian did. Obviously, I can extract the old library from the > > old package. But non-technical desktop user can't. > > But the non-technical user probably wouldn't have hand-compiled vim and links > either, so how would they get into that situation? Non-technical users won't hand-compile but they want third party software that doesn't come from the distribution. And package management system hates it. Truly. It is written with the assumption that everything installed is registered in the package database. Another example: I needed new binutils because it had some bugs fixed over standard Debian binutils. So I downloaded .tar.gz from ftp.gnu.org, compiled it, then issued a command to remove the old package, passed it a flag to ignore broken dependencies and then typed make install to install new binaries. --- guess what --- on any further invocation of dselect it complained that there are broken dependencies (the compiler needs binutils) and tried to install the old binutils package! Why is the package management so stupid? Why can't it check $PATH for "ld" and if there is one, don't try to install it again? After few hours, I resolved the issue by creating an empty "binutils" package and stuffing it into the database. Now, if I were not a programmer ... if I were an artist who needs the latest version of graphics software, if I were a musican who needs the latest version of audio software, if I were a gamer who needs the latest version of wine ... I'd be f'cked up. That's why I think that package management is an evil feature hurts desktop users. As a technical user, I somehow solve these quirks and install what I want, as a non-technical user, I wouldn't have a chance. Mikulas -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/