Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752592AbZLFTdt (ORCPT ); Sun, 6 Dec 2009 14:33:49 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751902AbZLFTds (ORCPT ); Sun, 6 Dec 2009 14:33:48 -0500 Received: from casper.infradead.org ([85.118.1.10]:43675 "EHLO casper.infradead.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1750991AbZLFTdq (ORCPT ); Sun, 6 Dec 2009 14:33:46 -0500 Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:35:55 -0800 From: Arjan van de Ven To: Linus Torvalds Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" , LKML , ACPI Devel Maling List , pm list , Alan Stern Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] PM updates for 2.6.33 Message-ID: <20091206113555.5a646713@infradead.org> In-Reply-To: References: <200912052216.19540.rjw@sisk.pl> <200912060055.36130.rjw@sisk.pl> <200912060254.10081.rjw@sisk.pl> Organization: Intel X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.3 (GTK+ 2.16.6; i586-redhat-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MP_/Z3T4fpKJS1mast=qfqs523h" X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 10216 Lines: 181 --MP_/Z3T4fpKJS1mast=qfqs523h Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 18:05:14 -0800 (PST) Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote: > > > > While the current settings are probably unsafe (like enabling PCI > > devices to be suspended asynchronously by default if there are not > > any direct dependences between them), there are provisions to make > > eveything safe, if we have enough information (which also is needed > > to put the required logic into the drivers). > > I disagree. > > Think of a situation that we already handle pretty poorly: USB mass > storage devices over a suspend/resume. > > > The device tree represents a good deal of the dependences > > between devices and the other dependences may be represented as PM > > links enforcing specific ordering of the PM callbacks. > > The device tree means nothing at all, because it may need to be > entirely rebuilt at resume time. btw I instrumented both the suspend and resume, and made graphs out of it for my laptop (modern laptop with Intel cpu/wifi/graphics of course). http://www.fenrus.org/graphs/suspend.svg http://www.fenrus.org/graphs/resume.svg (also attached for convenience) the resume clearly shows that all this talking about PCI stuff is completely without practical merit.. it's the USB stuff where the time is spent. in suspend, there's a PCI device (:1b) that does take some time, which is the audio controller. The bulk of the time is in the serio driver though.. As an "interested bystander" to this thread.... sounds like Linus' arguments have merit, and that solving the USB resume to go async in some form will fix pretty much all we want solving... [and that at least we need to do this stuff data/measurement driven, and not just based on how we THINK things work] -- Arjan van de Ven Intel Open Source Technology Centre For development, discussion and tips for power savings, visit http://www.lesswatts.org --MP_/Z3T4fpKJS1mast=qfqs523h Content-Type: image/svg+xml-compressed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=suspend.svgz H4sICJEFHEsAA3N1c3BlbmQuc3ZnAM1c/25TORP9n6eoIq20SPTWY3vG4y5lH+VTgQDVdpsqDQvs 03/HN2yvL7lubYillPKrbSbnjD0zZzxOXv/59e/bs3/W24ebzd3VigazOnvYXd+9v77d3K2vVneb 1Z9vzl68fvjn49mXm/e7T1crawx+6NP65uOnHR5hzG+r3ACtzmDy7uFq9Wm3u7+8uPjy5cvwxQ2b 7ceL9NALmFq9efF6u363O/t6tYKt74bNYFwUQ+p88MazyursG0xy/nSeE8Bvt8D24eb29nL78e3v 5pV5ZZlf/pG+cr65v353s/t2aQb+42G33fy1Ph+fAF+g7194fJR5uboAlt366+5st72+e/iw2f59 tRr/eXu9W/9Or4j9y7PtZpf+F/HzZx82d7vzh5t/1wkx3e9Wb27u7j/vwuuLZCZnNhgfANh4ciDj OT5StX4gb8hLDOJDrOYJlsDcgafMsfIB7Tfh3B4wBA3rgIksB/YTOzuINRSNekfOVrIbub2yXeg5 kwM9JCfndEguxAEb1gel9NiMnhmwQ0OM6mMgaeE3/u7C0CrP0B5ytOf+kGOMgzAHUZFghfJYxMoZ I0SsaaO2LWKfYHTGzNBWx6YsEg/wVoxMxgb5ZeL72OxIPEdbTZyXiauxjuBH76ddrUxDZCEWFkvM 1bzJaj/ePAN7uKkf1tubzWHsYvFoCEwoJAh6nVhS1IFUnfXKotE3rS6YdqkxYJeDLbA0hyydj1gz r8pqKYZHlmHwCmsShNWLrWW5D95eLB2bHOyTe9iNO1iNP6w5sAN64BWNGO/yyCXrwTaaCAlB1Wv7 X17ux1tzvDWx+/nh7aGcGImLcdAMzlHwecqCeY6IYKsocEEbmHeM3pF5BriS+WGy3jNXrCzUJlmb Mzeo58jXIqQWmatWSn2n3Zf6hLiS+mG6HqkHIuQsY+HLGXWk6iSUo1CMUM4noJYT7QxtJe1DXbKn jT+M8z6Xlj+/4h3F8572hLaStivQRvk1yN0m5KxDQAipBEXlctSW0fsozj3rR7CVpAsJXdH3iTiG rjvCFu8rtUfiGeBK5gsqJRkyHl2ER8nSwi4nCaS1cqyr/gbemOOtIZ6ky/UtytKSfEn0JWltB6rh aEHelf6Et1qFL+W31FyKN9Cpzv6w8tGjbhjwDg3dZVcdTk5NDrea+VKKS8xDJNjyUlp0gtj3tTKm rzgfqU94q6kvJbpEPVpnbOpn+Gjh3pX6hLea+lKmA3V0c5y6V1g8wqp3l+0gnyGuJr+U5xJ5Fo+e hFzMuaOe44NjepqmhqV3sE9wa4jfv3u4/2u7TJzRbQdnKLhQqOxBhE9Gt4N7hriG/Hb98TMevNl+ GwprL+hISdQxh8VEH7xDm1B/FtGxwIN+hraGvsHHpQmXJg6FOifWW5NOXJSO0r501PGJ/oS2kX6h 2EEkMila9FBIe2ocJP1JKPrEf4LbyL9Q8cQrKhpaBHeM5e8t7ZMHJsCNHigUPoFmdM6ng8wjaNzO Ej85YMLb6IBSAgwhrXeEejya3uvqgAlvvQPk0piiAyKruJDE3TRGogHNvENr5BnF5kR0PudYD0+i 91RtgSoahIEdozsSiXHWyT/WOkJqqS73faW9NzaHW7/U5pI+LKX7xF+8Vesc/prSndpByZno1CPb ce1a91X33oQcbGmtR64Lqd2rHzxW0zixMJCttWMENhom6Ga0TC1kuy42tnaGt3GxFzJ7coDaiB4h IsTlSLW9Z3QnF2SIG12wFO/JBd6yEfbxh1PanyvvvfX96IIJcZML1kUXMLJ4Oh3ys10AVwe2wQZF f1Nf3PrV9pH8hLWJ/PthYSKVyCOxe/bGBZvLO0KyCwIXR06l5AS0fSKfYW0kv5gAeTDY4xqQ1+fC Zjwqs9aRoK2nRmHXi77kaBvpL6Y/0NeU4VnEzg6z4GSYt2CMCmtO437M3gET3kYHLEY+D0QxENIb ZE3uAI9vBnGCvIcAOA1hn/hncJv4vxsWJpMjfxEV752fH+RmN2gsN3b2XflPcBv5FwKAlIPFdjcy E7tEDt820JRIguYkrtLs+U9wG/kX9j+iW1BJhKf492gNorMBcQap791pKP1IGdYnpO7bJaaaXMcG tZw1Wl2OdFiwbYc4vciqhhxu00pfL5X5xN/CHuIZpXOW6r1zwaGJxXdVQushTk8PZIAbPbAQ66MH hIJG/Et10QNe8HkqZ/ijBybAjR4oxIAjTTvdIbKPcI7dW+onF2SIW1xgbGkToHSgnWEWJ4WEH7Xh Pne/cj+yn8A2si9tACRPaKgQdF7u050+Q2iprGV3Cgf5I/sJbBP7xZOtMaem7iFC0Phj3EfqqvZV NYdbe1FjQ/+7KXBHG4d2XuJ836OVCmhynDNJWDRdNO0o9Uf2E+Bq9qbIXhDfaOTHNv4oI4yega85 3qq5dbpoW+QeDLScTYcmRzji6qvxR+4T3rb7SUUHKGgSihzpUYYXfcu+5njrZ/dF8hHyhiN07tFG t/1En2ZwWyf3JQega0B0RLKz6wsE5hZPZZPqa5zd9uSfoW2d3Zcc4FPbBBUZZuNrwh6L5NKY2GjT hfPeWyDD2zq/L7kAnRSJDRGMj+KC3hkgw9s6wi+5QHwMLiKwZtpnvOgNlQXdB7VRO+npL/w1x9s6 wy+5IAT0emRpfo8h2wXBh/rbmn0FQIa1dYJfoq/R45Mo+uxlrOkKW3r5EgIO2rftrKeT9osuh1o6 6tkP65e4RhOGCOFk05Tgh2PNn+ryugr9aDRHW7/Y9mkHBGesT4PxXPRR0vohsmHHTVONjlp/dMCE tnWGv+yA1Dyph67VH27p/tTV7L56P6ac9Yi2kf9ivh/5C5ba+6hGf90BfUX/6IAJbutgv+iBkEZ3 bsYfcQ/NqwQ/WHci5/oj/f+wto70S+Q9HIqCZimv9mjwOR0pIPYjnvAkRH9iP4FtHeeX6ItPr7KC S7M7TKnWoaJCWjGjWzyNG/qRfA72icHG+yEssrVgy+pSRKvXQrL31dfTeiv8aGOOt3WKX3KBopcT ax16ukUXeGuqLzH0VvjJBRne1kn+sgtiOtAA4qie7cwFzke01JagMbRW4PVW+Eh1Od7WWX7JBekA 1zE7dcuyDwnWxPqTro41H/wzsK2z/CL/iMgS8jFygT8rtd3S7ST6Ev8JbOssv8TfmmicBCF2v77+ fWV/ekObCW3rML/oAHy4gF9Ev74Begt/Z3K8TS54+4QLUO1cQFqRWZsLsRsj0loQ07gBuqUAzrE+ UfmvC5Xfx3RWZqHmA3P85bLXWeSzydG2TvRLDuAQOA0/5iO9rOiRP5FX4CYHZGhbB/olB4Bk5BjV 2dnrErN3G5CGF6Z1VX5wQIa2dZxfcgBskThhG2Y1H9y9pGhH1PvGt1vo6YEMbutIv+SBaK2kK8F2 Pt/6qS3QXf6n9xCa8LbO9TMXlJ/EvNL4wzunoSz4ikcSfjBmH0uGHFUYsjwzpIuGtMKQ05mhsGTI c4Uh9Py5IVkyxLbCkPgKQ7HCUAgzQ7xkSKTCUDpCyAz5JUPB1Sy/cTNLi4ZqqBHJs4a0hhqld3t7 xlCsoubt04acqbHC/JwV5J0aQ6LPGqKqiFV61pCtidh9Jn3G0BSx6U1Q37z4PyLlxbR9VQAA --MP_/Z3T4fpKJS1mast=qfqs523h Content-Type: image/svg+xml-compressed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; 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