Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1754992Ab0AWALu (ORCPT ); Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:11:50 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1754401Ab0AWALs (ORCPT ); Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:11:48 -0500 Received: from smtp1.linux-foundation.org ([140.211.169.13]:35085 "EHLO smtp1.linux-foundation.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751628Ab0AWALq (ORCPT ); Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:11:46 -0500 Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:11:03 -0800 (PST) From: Linus Torvalds X-X-Sender: torvalds@localhost.localdomain To: "Frank Ch. Eigler" cc: Oleg Nesterov , Andrew Morton , Stephen Rothwell , Peter Zijlstra , Peter Zijlstra , Fr??d??ric Weisbecker , LKML , Steven Rostedt , Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo , linux-next@vger.kernel.org, "H. Peter Anvin" , utrace-devel@redhat.com, Thomas Gleixner Subject: Re: linux-next: add utrace tree In-Reply-To: <20100122221348.GA4263@redhat.com> Message-ID: References: <20100121013822.28781960.sfr@canb.auug.org.au> <20100122111747.3c224dfd.sfr@canb.auug.org.au> <20100121163004.8779bd69.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <20100121163145.7e958c3f.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <20100122005147.GD22003@redhat.com> <20100121170541.7425ff10.akpm@linux-foundation.org> <20100122182827.GA13185@redhat.com> <20100122200129.GG22003@redhat.com> <20100122221348.GA4263@redhat.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LFD 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1576 Lines: 42 On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote: > > The point is that the intermediate api will allow (and, as the part > you clipped out about utrace-gdbstub said, *already has allowed*) > alternative plausible interfaces that coexist just fine. And my point is that multiple interfaces are BAD. There is one interface we _have_ to have: the traditional ptrace one. That one we can't get away from. "Multiple interfaces" on its own is just confusion with no upside. You need a _reason_ to have other interfaces. They need to have that killer feature. Just being "different" is not a feature at all. > So all this is about *naming* utrace? It was never built "for > tracing", but for (efficient/multiplexed) *control*. That wasn't even > its original name -- one of your lieutenants asked roland to change it > to utrace. No. It's not about naming. It's about the downside of having amorphous interfaces that apparently don't even have rules, and are then used to implement random crap. Yes, the SNL skit about "It's a dessert topping _and_ a floor wax" was funny, but it was funny exactly because it was crazy. The fact that you can do crazy things is not a good thing. You need to find the "goodness" somewhere else, and that's what I'm trying to tell you. You just seem to have trouble listening. Linus -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/