Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 20:28:08 +0100
From: Jerome Glisse <glisse@freedesktop.org>
To: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Cc: Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>, Dave Airlie <airlied@linux.ie>,
       torvalds@linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
       dri-devel@lists.sf.net
Subject: Re: hung bootup with "drm/radeon/kms: move radeon KMS on/off switch
 out of staging."
Message-ID: <20100204192808.GC1434@localhost.localdomain>
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 <20100204181540.GA20922@srcf.ucam.org>
 <20100204185603.GA6665@elte.hu>
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On Thu, Feb 04, 2010 at 08:19:35PM +0100, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> 
> * Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 04, 2010 at 07:56:03PM +0100, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > 
> > > Do you see my argument why any user who is hit by this would categorize 
> > > this as a kernel regression in an existing driver?
> > 
> > No. If a user changes configuration and gets a hang, that's a bug but not a 
> > regression.
> 
> Only if it's some brand-new driver or a brand-new kernel feature for which 
> no-one can have any prior expectations of stability. Especially if it's added 
> in the merge window when many new drivers are added.
> 
> But isnt it a regression to a user if it's shipped in -rc7 appearing as a new 
> sub-option of an existing driver?
> 
> I'd wager that most main-street Linux users would consider that a regression.
>  
> As i see it is that you are trying to have it both ways: claim it's a new 
> driver when it comes to handling regressions, but also try to have the 
> benefits (and adoption flux) of an old driver when it comes to facing it to 
> users.

We have been treating KMS regression as regression, i fixed numerous regressions
since it was first merged as an staging driver, and i keep doing so, i try to be
as much reactive as i can. I am sorry you have a bad experience about it. I just
wanted to add that we planed to move KMS out of staging in 2.6.33 long time ago
and yes maybe we should have done it earlier, but no matter when we do the change
you will still face this bug until we fix it.

So on fixing the issue front,  one question do you also enable radeonfb ? if so
then its likely the root issue of this bug, i think kconfig should forbid having
both radeon kms + radeonfb but i am not sure how allyesconfig behave in respect
of such constraint.
 
> Some info about that in the Kconfig would be helpful IMO - so that people are 
> less surprised if it happens to break while the radeon driver worked fine for 
> them before.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 	Ingo

I think make menuconfig has a more explicit message iirc.

Cheers,
Jerome
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