Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1755941Ab0GBAnE (ORCPT ); Thu, 1 Jul 2010 20:43:04 -0400 Received: from mail-vw0-f46.google.com ([209.85.212.46]:45455 "EHLO mail-vw0-f46.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752437Ab0GBAnA convert rfc822-to-8bit (ORCPT ); Thu, 1 Jul 2010 20:43:00 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=aFFlXcY75fz0ntH52Jv1OJeIFS6P9YYOUiOsWCsqJHLqXkPA08ysP3AK2XkTbA/cCt /x2jHRu1zlpIvve1DGg+oePUZxV10tylHJmjuI259FAxPYGtuRQs3BQrjEIB0jjZ4Ikl CmnTb2e0acJnoDEbZw9PTX9y50UyJh+5cQIz4= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <1278024678.7738.54.camel@c-dwalke-linux.qualcomm.com> <1278026975.7738.89.camel@c-dwalke-linux.qualcomm.com> <1278029284.7738.116.camel@c-dwalke-linux.qualcomm.com> <4C2D3066.9040104@codeaurora.org> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 20:42:59 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Closed source userspace graphics drivers with an open source kernel component From: Timothy Meade To: Saravana Kannan Cc: LKML , dri-devel , linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, jcrouse@codeaurora.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3153 Lines: 63 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Timothy Meade Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:38 PM Subject: Closed source userspace graphics drivers with an open source kernel component To: Saravana Kannan Cc: LKML , dri-devel , linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, jcrouse@codeaurora.org On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Saravana Kannan wrote: > > Dave Airlie wrote: >> >> This is more about initial development stages. We maintain kernel >> API/ABI for all in-tree drivers, however before we put a driver into >> mainline, we usually need to redo the crazy interfaces that vendors >> have come up with. Like 32/64 alignment, passing userspace addresses >> into the kernel, passing phy addresses to userspace etc. If the >> userspace binary is closed that process becomes next to impossible. > > My 2 cents: > I think we should leave the onus of fixing the userspace to work with the sane kernel API with the entity trying to get their drivers into the kernel. I think it's a better approach (as in, more likelihood of getting device support) than saying, we will only allow fully open sourced kernel drivers. > > -Saravana > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-arm-msm" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at ?http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Hello.? I've been working with the developers on the htc-linux project and following the progress of Android on MSM devices closely for a few years.? I've been excitied to see DRM/DRI replace PMEM and the Android specific interfaces be replaced with more Linux-like ones.? The Xorg driver from Qualcomm uses this same interface for 2D and it's possible that Android will take the same approach, though it uses 3D and GLES as a type of abstraction layer for surfaceflinger.? This allows for a closed 3D driver with an open command submission layer that is in itself not that different from the split for ATI devices using radeonhd.? I say this because the alternative for these devices is a fully closed binary and secrecy surrounding the graphics layers that ensures that only the OS that ships with the device can ever really be used and preventing those non-coorporate developers as myself from utilising GPL code the way we want or even usuing are own cell phones (in this case).? I would choose a fully open, X based OS even if that meant only having 2D drivers, but I know that Quic and others aren't going to develop just a (accelerated) 2D driver, not the kernel components or userspace but instead rely on the same GLES layer that Android uses, essentially making X and open environments a second class citizen on modern mobile hardware. I hope those making the decision will take this into consideration. -- Timothy Meade (tmzt on freenode) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/