From: Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: stable? quality assurance?
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:22:44 +0200
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Am Sonntag 11 Juli 2010 schrieb Eric Dumazet:
> Le dimanche 11 juillet 2010 =C3=A0 09:18 +0200, Martin Steigerwald a =C3=
=A9crit :
> > Hi!

Hi Eric,

> > 2.6.34 was a desaster for me: bug #15969 - patch was availble before
> > 2.6.34 already, bug #15788, also reported with 2.6.34-rc2 already, as
> > well as most important two complete lockups - well maybe just X.org
> > and radeon KMS, I didn't start my second laptop to SSH into the
> > locked up one - on my ThinkPad T42. I fixed the first one with the
> > patch, but after the lockups I just downgraded to 2.6.33 again.
> >=20
> > I still actually *use* my machines for something else than hunting
> > patches for kernel bugs and on kernel.org it is written "Latest
> > *Stable* Kernel" (accentuation from me). I know of the argument that
[...]

> > advertised as such on kernel.org I think. I am willing to risk some
> > testing and do bug reports, but these are still production machines,
> > I do not have any spare test machines, and there needs to be some
> > balance, i.e. the kernels should basically work. Thus I for sure
> > will be more reluctant to upgrade in the future.
> >=20
> > Ciao,
>=20
> Anybody running latest kernel on a production machine is living
> dangerously. Dont you already know that ?

Yes, and I indicated it above. But in my - naturally rather subjective I=20
admit - perception the balance between stable and unstable from about 1 or=
=20
2 years ago has been lost. In my personal experience it has gotten much=20
worse in the last time. To the extent that I skipped some major kernels=20
versions completely. For example 2.6.30.

And its not servers - these use distro kernels. =20

> When 2.6.X is released, everybody knows it contains at least 100 bugs.

Then why its still labeled "stable" on kernel.org? It is not. It is at=20
most beta quality software.

Its not more stable than KDE 4.0 wasn't stable, but at least they=20
mentioned in the release notes.

> It was true for all previous values of X, it will be true for all
> futures values.
>=20
> If you want to be safer, use a one year old kernel, with all stable
> patches in.
>=20
> Something like 2.6.32.16 : Its probably more stable than all 2.6.X
> kernels.
>=20
> If 2.6.33 runs OK on your machine, you are lucky, since 2.6.33.6
> contains numerous bug fixes.

Actually it was 2.6.33.1 with userspace software suspend and it had pretty=
=20
good uptimes above 20 days - only interrupted by installing 2.6.34.

Well then if everybody else considers this for granted I just replace that=
=20
"stable" on kernel.org by "beta quality" - from my perception it does not=20
even have release candidate status in the last iterations - in my mind and=
=20
be done with it.

At as soon as the kernel contains a performant hibernation infrastructure=20
I will probably just use distro kernels and be done with it.

Ciao,
=2D-=20
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA  B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7

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