Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751896Ab0HAWw7 (ORCPT ); Sun, 1 Aug 2010 18:52:59 -0400 Received: from mailgw01.dd24.net ([193.46.215.41]:41390 "EHLO mailgw01.dd24.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751406Ab0HAWw5 (ORCPT ); Sun, 1 Aug 2010 18:52:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [Pkg-sysvinit-devel] Bug#587665: Safety of early boot init of /dev/random seed From: Christoph Anton Mitterer To: Matt Mackall Cc: Henrique de Moraes Holschuh , Herbert Xu , "Theodore Ts'o" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org In-Reply-To: <1278355233.9937.21.camel@calx> References: <20100630184209.GA30971@khazad-dum.debian.net> <4C2BCE88.20004@debian.org> <20100630234016.GD18711@login1.uio.no> <4C2BDCF0.5080203@debian.org> <20100701141022.GA3811@login1.uio.no> <20100701171357.GE4789@khazad-dum.debian.net> <20100702064415.GE3811@login1.uio.no> <20100702232919.GA14437@login2.uio.no> <20100703012833.GA20929@khazad-dum.debian.net> <20100703151636.GB23648@khazad-dum.debian.net> <20100703160819.GA12343@khazad-dum.debian.net> <1278355233.9937.21.camel@calx> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha1"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-50XDG5RJXJ6x0rkFaJ+S" Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 00:52:51 +0200 Message-ID: <1280703171.10108.35.camel@fermat.scientia.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.30.2 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 9607 Lines: 163 --=-50XDG5RJXJ6x0rkFaJ+S Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Matt... May I ask you a follow-up question on that,... which is however not so much Debian-init-related, I guess. On Mon, 2010-07-05 at 13:40 -0500, Matt Mackall wrote: > > > 1. How much data of unknown quality can we feed the random pool at bo= ot, > > > before it causes damage (i.e. what is the threshold where we viola= te the > > > "you are not goint to be any worse than you were before" rule) ? >=20 > There is no limit. The mixing operations are computationally reversible, > which guarantees that no unknown degrees of freedom are clobbered when > mixing known data. >=20 > > > 2. How dangerous it is to feed the pool with stale seed data in the n= ext > > > boot (i.e. in a failure mode where we do not regenerate the seed f= ile) ? >=20 > Not at all. Are the above to statements also true for possibly "evil" random data? I mean the seed file (as in Debian) is already from the kernel's PRNG, right? So that shouldn't contain evil and special crafted data in order to weak the PRNG. Working with a Gird-CA for the LHC - we're always interested in nice tokens like: http://www.entropykey.co.uk/ Unfortunately it's never really clear how well their contribution would actually be.... and the paranoid below us could even believe, that mighty government organisations have such devices hacked in order to harm our crypto ;) Thanks, Chris. --=-50XDG5RJXJ6x0rkFaJ+S Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIITMjCCBggw ggPwoAMCAQICAQEwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAweTEQMA4GA1UEChMHUm9vdCBDQTEeMBwGA1UECxMV aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jYWNlcnQub3JnMSIwIAYDVQQDExlDQSBDZXJ0IFNpZ25pbmcgQXV0aG9yaXR5 MSEwHwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhJzdXBwb3J0QGNhY2VydC5vcmcwHhcNMDUxMDE0MDczNjU1WhcNMzMw MzI4MDczNjU1WjBUMRQwEgYDVQQKEwtDQWNlcnQgSW5jLjEeMBwGA1UECxMVaHR0cDovL3d3dy5D QWNlcnQub3JnMRwwGgYDVQQDExNDQWNlcnQgQ2xhc3MgMyBSb290MIICIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEF 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