Subject: Re: If you want kbuild 2.5, tell Linus
From: Austin Gonyou <austin@digitalroadkill.net>
To: Daniel Phillips <phillips@bonn-fries.net>
Cc: Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
In-Reply-To: <E17Esc6-0000v9-00@starship>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Organization: 
Date: 03 Jun 2002 12:51:33 -0500
Message-Id: <1023126693.32500.9.camel@UberGeek>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org

On Mon, 2002-06-03 at 09:15, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> On Monday 03 June 2002 15:58, Keith Owens wrote:
> > I regret having to do this but Linus has left me with no other options.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Then tell Linus that you want kbuild 2.5.
> 
> Err, Keith, time to calm down ;-)

Agreed. I may be a newbie on *this* list, but not to lists in general.
Keith, I wholly respect all the work you've done as it *is* a good thing
and certainly a large step in the right direction, as all the numbers
clearly prove.(I say that because I'm certain that anyone else doing the
same testing would find the same things..so have at it!)

But impatience is seldom rewarded the way we'd often like. Something I
myself must remember, often!

Linus didn't lie, remember that, he even stated his position, as listed
below. Patience is key, but so is proper communication of intent. (see
below)

> Linus has already indicated his position, I guess you were busy writing
> the post so you didn't notice:
> 
>   http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel&m=102304528224527&w=2
> 
> Plus you've got helpers, how could the situation be better?

To play devil's advocate for just a minute: It would seem that
impatience is a two way street. Linus has decided how it should work,
and as we all know, this is a similar situation to CML2(ESR). 

The thing which remains constant however is a lack of communication
around timing. Without that information, from either party in this
discussion:Keith and Linus for all intents, then it often will be ill
rewarded for both parties. 

This is how flame wars seem to escalate rapidly and nearly every time,
about something which multiple parties believe is important. 

Let us take a step back, or completely off-line this discussion for a
day or two, and then have at it again, if the list permits. 

We should know that kbuild 2.5 is looked at by Linus and Kai. Let us not
*trash* another great make system. Let us take time and understanding,
but without the clear and crisp communication of intentions, timing
included, then it usually makes things *far* more frustrating than they
should've been.

> -- 
> Daniel
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/