Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1753881Ab0HQAVM (ORCPT ); Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:21:12 -0400 Received: from thunk.org ([69.25.196.29]:36619 "EHLO thunker.thunk.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753628Ab0HQAVK (ORCPT ); Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:21:10 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:20:32 -0400 From: "Ted Ts'o" To: Jesse Barnes Cc: Pavel Machek , Felipe Contreras , Alan Stern , paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com, Alan Cox , david@lang.hm, Brian Swetland , linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, arve@android.com, mjg59@srcf.ucam.org, florian@mickler.org, rjw@sisk.pl, peterz@infradead.org, tglx@linutronix.de, menage@google.com, david-b@pacbell.net, James.Bottomley@suse.de, arjan@infradead.org, swmike@swm.pp.se, galibert@pobox.com, dipankar@in.ibm.com Subject: Re: Attempted summary of suspend-blockers LKML thread, take three Message-ID: <20100817002032.GD21182@thunk.org> Mail-Followup-To: Ted Ts'o , Jesse Barnes , Pavel Machek , Felipe Contreras , Alan Stern , paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com, Alan Cox , david@lang.hm, Brian Swetland , linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, arve@android.com, mjg59@srcf.ucam.org, florian@mickler.org, rjw@sisk.pl, peterz@infradead.org, tglx@linutronix.de, menage@google.com, david-b@pacbell.net, James.Bottomley@suse.de, arjan@infradead.org, swmike@swm.pp.se, galibert@pobox.com, dipankar@in.ibm.com References:

<20100812125248.GA2763@thunk.org> <20100814075000.GB27430@elf.ucw.cz> <20100816081655.3e9e29f7@virtuousgeek.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20100816081655.3e9e29f7@virtuousgeek.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: tytso@thunk.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on thunker.thunk.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1897 Lines: 38 On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 08:16:55AM -0700, Jesse Barnes wrote: > Fortunately in this case the problem doesn't seem to be fatal. We've > already established that the userland API portion of suspend blockers > could be implemented in userspace with a bit more work, given that the > kernel problems with suspend/resume and events are addressed. > Hopefully Google is already developing a prototype userspace > implementation to make sure it's workable; being able to build stock > upstream kernels for my Droid and its Android userspace sure would be > nice. You know, you don't have to wait for the Android engineers to do this work. You (or others who want to be able to use stock upstream kernel with Android devices) could just as easily try to do the "bit more work" yourselves --- that is, do the open souce thing and scratch one's own itch. After all, Rafael is saying he's refusing to accept patches (or implement) in-kernel oppunsitic suspend for upstream unless it's proven to him that a userspace implementation isn't sufficient. It might be just as fair for the Android userspace upstream to refuse to accept (or engineer) userspace changes unless it is proven that the userspace version of opporunistic suspend is just as good as the in-kernel version which is successfully been deployed in millions and millions of shipping units today... Speaking personally, it's not clear to me how waking up a userspace suspend daemon and waiting for it to get scheduled will result in better power savings than simply handling it in the kernel, but as soon as someone is willing to do the work, we can find out for sure who is right. - Ted -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/