Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 09:03:14 +0100
From: Marc Koschewski <marc@osknowledge.org>
To: david@lang.hm
Cc: "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>, Gergely Nagy <algernon@balabit.hu>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
        James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>
Subject: Re: CAP_SYSLOG, 2.6.38 and user space
Message-ID: <20110204080302.GA24941@marc.osknowledge.org>
References: <1296733177.14846.26.camel@moria>
 <20110203153252.GA24153@mail.hallyn.com>
 <1296748401.14846.39.camel@moria>
 <20110203165132.GA28172@mail.hallyn.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102031647150.30983@asgard.lang.hm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102031647150.30983@asgard.lang.hm>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21hg (2010-09-15)
Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org
Content-Length: 3681
Lines: 93

Hey,


* david@lang.hm <david@lang.hm> [2011-02-03 16:49:08 -0800]:

> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> 
> >Quoting Gergely Nagy (algernon@balabit.hu):
> >>On Thu, 2011-02-03 at 15:32 +0000, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> >>>>Back in november, a patch was merged into the kernel (in  commit
> >>>>ce6ada35bdf710d16582cc4869c26722547e6f11), that splits CAP_SYSLOG out of
> >>>>CAP_SYS_ADMIN.
> >>>>
> >>>>Sadly, this has an unwelcomed consequence, that any userspace syslogd
> >>>>that formerly used CAP_SYS_ADMIN will stop working, unless upgraded, or
> >>>>otherwise adapted to the change.
> >>>>
> >>>>However, updating userspace isn't that easy, either, if one wants to
> >>>>support multiple kernels with the same userspace binary: pre-2.6.38, one
> >>>>needs CAP_SYS_ADMIN, but later kernels will need CAP_SYS_ADMIN. It would
> >>>>be trivial to keep both, but that kind of defeats the purpose of
> >>>>CAP_SYSLOG,
> >>>
> >>>The idea would be to only use both when you detect a possibly older
> >>>kernel.
> >>
> >>I was considering that, but... how do I reliably detect an older kernel?
> >>So far, I didn't find a reliable way with which I can detect a kernel
> >>version at run-time (apart from parsing utsname)
> >
> >...  Why not parse utsname?
> 
> because the name may be different on different systems, a generic software
> package is not going to be able to interpret them all.
> 
> >>>However, you're right of course, I really should have provided some way
> >>>for userspace to click 'ok, got the message, now continue anyway because
> >>>I'm running older userspace for now,'  i.e. a sysctl perhaps.
> >>>
> >>>Sorry about the trouble.  Here is a patch to just warn for now, with
> >>>the changelog showing what i intend to push next.
> >>>
> >>>sorry again,
> >>>-serge
> >>>
> >>>From 2d7408541dd3a6e19a4265b028233789be6a40f4 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> >>>From: Serge Hallyn <serge@peq.(none)>
> >>>Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:26:15 -0600
> >>>Subject: [PATCH 1/1] cap_syslog: don't refuse cap_sys_admin for now
> >>>
> >>>At 2.6.39 or 2.6.40, let's add a sysctl which defaults to 0.  When
> >>>0, refuse if cap_sys_admin, if 1, then allow.  This will allow
> >>>users to acknowledge (permanently, if they must, using /etc/sysctl.conf)
> >>>that they've seen the syslog message about cap_sys_admin being
> >>>deprecated for syslog.
> >>
> >>Could we have it the other way around, at least for a while? Otherwise,
> >
> >Sure.
> >
> >So long as there is a definite path toward eventually having syslog
> >with CAP_SYS_ADMIN be denied.
> 
> I can see what you would want to allow for a syslog daemon to have
> CAP_SYSLOG without needing to have CAP_SYS_ADMIN, but why do you see it as
> important to deny the ability if someone has CAP_SYS_ADMIN?

ack++

Moreover, this change really is 'hell' on _many_ machines. We had discussed a
thousands time to not break existing applications. So a) either make it optional in
the kernel so that userspace still works with CAP_SYS_ADMIN _and_ CAP_SYSLOG
while dropping a note that it should be fixed in userspace _and_ mark it as
deprecated as of mid 2012 or b) revert it.

> 
> David Lang
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/
> 
> 

-- 
Marc Koschewski
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/