2000-10-29 15:02:22

by Richard Guenther

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX

Hi!

Console colors are completely messed up (read: black, I even suspect
the font to be corrupt somehow) if switching back to console mode
from X (either by quitting or ctrl-alt-fX) in recent 2.4.0-textXX
kernels. 2.2.XX do work just fine. Is this a known problem with a
known fix?

Setup: standard VGA console, nothing special. ATI Mach64 Xserver which
is fine with 2.2.XX

Richard.

--
Richard Guenther <[email protected]>
WWW: http://www.anatom.uni-tuebingen.de/~richi/
The GLAME Project: http://www.glame.de/


2000-11-03 00:13:42

by James Simmons

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX

> Console colors are completely messed up (read: black, I even suspect
> the font to be corrupt somehow) if switching back to console mode
> from X (either by quitting or ctrl-alt-fX) in recent 2.4.0-textXX
> kernels. 2.2.XX do work just fine. Is this a known problem with a
> known fix?

How recent of a test kernel. Yes their was a problem with the console
palette but it is now fixed in the most recent test kernels.

2000-11-03 09:33:31

by Richard Guenther

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX

On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, James Simmons wrote:

> > Console colors are completely messed up (read: black, I even suspect
> > the font to be corrupt somehow) if switching back to console mode
> > from X (either by quitting or ctrl-alt-fX) in recent 2.4.0-textXX
> > kernels. 2.2.XX do work just fine. Is this a known problem with a
> > known fix?
>
> How recent of a test kernel. Yes their was a problem with the console
> palette but it is now fixed in the most recent test kernels.

2.4.0-test10-pre5

Richard.

--
Richard Guenther <[email protected]>
WWW: http://www.anatom.uni-tuebingen.de/~richi/
The GLAME Project: http://www.glame.de/

2000-11-03 18:17:30

by James Simmons

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX


> > How recent of a test kernel. Yes their was a problem with the console
> > palette but it is now fixed in the most recent test kernels.
>
> 2.4.0-test10-pre5

Please upgrade to a newer kernel. This problem has been fixed :-)

2000-11-06 09:30:21

by Richard Guenther

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX

On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, James Simmons wrote:

>
> > > How recent of a test kernel. Yes their was a problem with the console
> > > palette but it is now fixed in the most recent test kernels.
> >
> > 2.4.0-test10-pre5
>
> Please upgrade to a newer kernel. This problem has been fixed :-)
>

Unfortunately I cannot confirm this. Checked 2.4.0-test10 and the problem
is still there. I digged further and it seems to be a race condition(?)
triggered by swapped out stuff - because just starting X and switching
back to the console works fine, but as I start some memory-consuming stuff
(I have only 32Megs of ram) and then switch back to the console its
completely garbagled the first time and black the second time and later.

For your information, my config, etc. is attached below.

Richard.

--
Richard Guenther <[email protected]>
WWW: http://www.anatom.uni-tuebingen.de/~richi/
The GLAME Project: http://www.glame.de/

CONFIG_X86=y
CONFIG_ISA=y
CONFIG_UID16=y
CONFIG_EXPERIMENTAL=y
CONFIG_MODULES=y
CONFIG_KMOD=y
CONFIG_M586TSC=y
CONFIG_X86_WP_WORKS_OK=y
CONFIG_X86_INVLPG=y
CONFIG_X86_CMPXCHG=y
CONFIG_X86_BSWAP=y
CONFIG_X86_POPAD_OK=y
CONFIG_X86_L1_CACHE_SHIFT=5
CONFIG_X86_USE_STRING_486=y
CONFIG_X86_ALIGNMENT_16=y
CONFIG_X86_TSC=y
CONFIG_NOHIGHMEM=y
CONFIG_NET=y
CONFIG_PCI=y
CONFIG_PCI_GOANY=y
CONFIG_PCI_BIOS=y
CONFIG_PCI_DIRECT=y
CONFIG_PCI_NAMES=y
CONFIG_SYSVIPC=y
CONFIG_BSD_PROCESS_ACCT=y
CONFIG_SYSCTL=y
CONFIG_KCORE_ELF=y
CONFIG_BINFMT_AOUT=m
CONFIG_BINFMT_ELF=y
CONFIG_BINFMT_MISC=m
CONFIG_PNP=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_FD=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_RAM=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_RAM_SIZE=4096
CONFIG_PACKET=y
CONFIG_NETLINK=y
CONFIG_NETLINK_DEV=y
CONFIG_FILTER=y
CONFIG_UNIX=y
CONFIG_INET=y
CONFIG_IDE=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDISK=y
CONFIG_IDEDISK_MULTI_MODE=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDECD=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEPCI=y
CONFIG_IDEPCI_SHARE_IRQ=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDMA_PCI=y
CONFIG_IDEDMA_PCI_AUTO=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDMA=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_PIIX=y
CONFIG_PIIX_TUNING=y
CONFIG_IDEDMA_AUTO=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE_MODES=y
CONFIG_SCSI=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SD=m
CONFIG_SD_EXTRA_DEVS=40
CONFIG_CHR_DEV_ST=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SR=m
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SR_VENDOR=y
CONFIG_SR_EXTRA_DEVS=2
CONFIG_CHR_DEV_SG=m
CONFIG_SCSI_DEBUG_QUEUES=y
CONFIG_SCSI_MULTI_LUN=y
CONFIG_SCSI_CONSTANTS=y
CONFIG_SCSI_SYM53C8XX=y
CONFIG_SCSI_NCR53C8XX_DEFAULT_TAGS=4
CONFIG_SCSI_NCR53C8XX_MAX_TAGS=32
CONFIG_SCSI_NCR53C8XX_SYNC=20
CONFIG_NETDEVICES=y
CONFIG_NET_ETHERNET=y
CONFIG_NET_VENDOR_SMC=y
CONFIG_NET_ISA=y
CONFIG_NE2000=m
CONFIG_NET_PCI=y
CONFIG_RTL8129=m
CONFIG_8139TOO=m
CONFIG_VT=y
CONFIG_VT_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_SERIAL=y
CONFIG_UNIX98_PTYS=y
CONFIG_UNIX98_PTY_COUNT=256
CONFIG_I2C=m
CONFIG_I2C_ALGOBIT=m
CONFIG_I2C_CHARDEV=m
CONFIG_RTC=y
CONFIG_VIDEO_DEV=y
CONFIG_VIDEO_PROC_FS=y
CONFIG_VIDEO_BT848=m
CONFIG_AUTOFS4_FS=y
CONFIG_FAT_FS=m
CONFIG_MSDOS_FS=m
CONFIG_VFAT_FS=m
CONFIG_RAMFS=m
CONFIG_ISO9660_FS=m
CONFIG_JOLIET=y
CONFIG_MINIX_FS=m
CONFIG_PROC_FS=y
CONFIG_DEVPTS_FS=y
CONFIG_EXT2_FS=y
CONFIG_CODA_FS=m
CONFIG_NFS_FS=m
CONFIG_NFS_V3=y
CONFIG_SUNRPC=m
CONFIG_LOCKD=m
CONFIG_LOCKD_V4=y
CONFIG_PARTITION_ADVANCED=y
CONFIG_MSDOS_PARTITION=y
CONFIG_NLS=y
CONFIG_NLS_DEFAULT="iso8859-1"
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_437=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_850=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_852=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_1=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_2=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_15=m
CONFIG_NLS_UTF8=m
CONFIG_VGA_CONSOLE=y
CONFIG_VIDEO_SELECT=y
CONFIG_SOUND=y
CONFIG_SOUND_OSS=y
CONFIG_SOUND_TRACEINIT=y
CONFIG_SOUND_DMAP=y
CONFIG_SOUND_SB=y
CONFIG_SOUND_AWE32_SYNTH=m
CONFIG_SOUND_TVMIXER=m
CONFIG_MAGIC_SYSRQ=y

Linux version 2.4.0-test10 ([email protected]) (gcc version 2.95.2 20000220 (Debian GNU/Linux)) #19 Sam Nov 4 21:29:27 CET 2000
BIOS-provided physical RAM map:
BIOS-e820: 00000000000a0000 @ 0000000000000000 (usable)
BIOS-e820: 0000000000018000 @ 00000000000e8000 (reserved)
BIOS-e820: 0000000001f00000 @ 0000000000100000 (usable)
BIOS-e820: 0000000000020000 @ 00000000fffe0000 (reserved)
On node 0 totalpages: 8192
zone(0): 4096 pages.
zone(1): 4096 pages.
zone(2): 0 pages.
Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=beta ro root=1601 BOOT_FILE=/lib/images/beta/zImage sb=0x220,5,1,5 uart401=0x330,-1
Initializing CPU#0
Detected 99.476 MHz processor.
Console: colour VGA+ 100x30
Calibrating delay loop... 198.25 BogoMIPS
Memory: 30304k/32768k available (1057k kernel code, 2080k reserved, 80k data, 188k init, 0k highmem)
Dentry-cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)
Buffer-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
Page-cache hash table entries: 8192 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)
Inode-cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
CPU: Intel Pentium 75 - 200 stepping 05
Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK.
Intel Pentium with F0 0F bug - workaround enabled.
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfbcd0, last bus=0
PCI: Using configuration type 1
PCI: Probing PCI hardware
Limiting direct PCI/PCI transfers.
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
Starting kswapd v1.8
pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
Linux video capture interface: v1.00
Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 6.31
ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
PIIX: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 38
PIIX: chipset revision 2
PIIX: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
PIIX: neither IDE port enabled (BIOS)
PIIX: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39
PIIX: chipset revision 2
PIIX: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
ide0: BM-DMA at 0xe800-0xe807, BIOS settings: hda:pio, hdb:pio
ide1: BM-DMA at 0xe808-0xe80f, BIOS settings: hdc:pio, hdd:pio
hda: QUANTUM FIREBALL_TM2110A, ATA DISK drive
hdc: IBM-DHEA-38451, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
hda: 4124736 sectors (2112 MB) w/76KiB Cache, CHS=4092/16/63, DMA
hdc: 16514064 sectors (8455 MB) w/472KiB Cache, CHS=16383/16/63, (U)DMA
Partition check:
hda: hda1 hda2 hda3 hda4
hdc: hdc1 hdc2 < hdc5 hdc6 hdc7 hdc8 >
Serial driver version 5.02 (2000-08-09) with MANY_PORTS SHARE_IRQ SERIAL_PCI enabled
ttyS00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16550A
ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16550A
Real Time Clock Driver v1.10d
SCSI subsystem driver Revision: 1.00
sym53c8xx: at PCI bus 0, device 9, function 0
sym53c8xx: setting PCI_COMMAND_PARITY...(fix-up)
sym53c8xx: 53c810a detected
sym53c810a-0: rev 0x23 on pci bus 0 device 9 function 0 irq 12
sym53c810a-0: ID 7, Fast-10, Parity Checking
sym53c810a-0: restart (scsi reset).
scsi0 : sym53c8xx - version 1.6b
Vendor: TEAC Model: CD-ROM CD-532S Rev: 1.0A
Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02
Soundblaster audio driver Copyright (C) by Hannu Savolainen 1993-1996
<Sound Blaster 16 (4.13)> at 0x220 irq 5 dma 1,5
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP
IP: routing cache hash table of 512 buckets, 4Kbytes
TCP: Hash tables configured (established 2048 bind 2048)
NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0/SMP for Linux NET4.0.
VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly.
Freeing unused kernel memory: 188k freed
Adding Swap: 98780k swap-space (priority -1)
i2c-core.o: i2c core module
i2c-algo-bit.o: i2c bit algorithm module
i2c-core.o: driver i2c TV tuner driver registered.
bttv: driver version 0.7.38 loaded
bttv: using 2 buffers with 2080k (4160k total) for capture
bttv: Host bridge 82437FX Triton PIIX
bttv: Bt8xx card found (0).
bttv0: Brooktree Bt848 (rev 17) bus: 0, devfn: 88, irq: 10, memory: 0xfaff0000.
tuner: chip found @ 0x61
bttv0: i2c attach [Philips PAL]
i2c-core.o: client [Philips PAL] registered to adapter [bt848 #0](pos. 0).
i2c-core.o: adapter bt848 #0 registered as adapter 0.
bttv0: i2c: checking for eeprom @ 0xa0... found
bttv0: model: BT848(Hauppauge old) [autodetected]
bttv0: Hauppauge eeprom: tuner=Philips FI1216 MK2 (5)
bttv0: Hauppauge msp34xx: reset line init
bttv0: i2c: checking for MSP34xx @ 0x80... not found
bttv0: i2c detach [Philips PAL]
i2c-core.o: client [Philips PAL] unregistered.
i2c-core.o: adapter unregistered: bt848 #0
tuner: chip found @ 0x61
bttv0: i2c attach [Philips PAL]
i2c-core.o: client [Philips PAL] registered to adapter [bt848 #0](pos. 0).
i2c-core.o: adapter bt848 #0 registered as adapter 0.
bttv0: i2c: checking for MSP34xx @ 0x80... not found
bttv0: i2c: checking for TDA8425 @ 0x82... not found
bttv0: i2c: checking for TDA985x @ 0xb6... not found
bttv0: i2c: checking for TDA9875 @ 0xb0... not found


-- Versions installed: (if some fields are empty or look
-- unusual then possibly you have very old versions)
Linux mickey 2.4.0-test10 #19 Sam Nov 4 21:29:27 CET 2000 i586 unknown
Kernel modules 2.3.17
Gnu C 2.95.2
Gnu Make 3.78.1
Binutils 2.9.5.0.37
Linux C Library 2.1.3
Dynamic linker ldd: version 1.9.11
Procps 2.0.6
Mount 2.10f
Net-tools 2.05
Kbd 0.99
Sh-utils 2.0
Modules Loaded bttv tuner i2c-algo-bit i2c-core

2000-11-06 17:37:26

by James Simmons

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX


> > > > How recent of a test kernel. Yes their was a problem with the console
> > > > palette but it is now fixed in the most recent test kernels.
> > >
> > > 2.4.0-test10-pre5
> >
> > Please upgrade to a newer kernel. This problem has been fixed :-)
> >
>
> Unfortunately I cannot confirm this. Checked 2.4.0-test10 and the problem
> is still there. I digged further and it seems to be a race condition(?)
> triggered by swapped out stuff - because just starting X and switching
> back to the console works fine, but as I start some memory-consuming stuff
> (I have only 32Megs of ram) and then switch back to the console its
> completely garbagled the first time and black the second time and later.

I have seen this problem before. The problem is the X server is the one
that sets the hardware back to vga text mode. Under heavy stress the X
server can fail and the hardware is left in a undeterminate state. I have
started on working to solve this problem but it will be something for
2.5.X since it requires quite a bit of change to vgacon and the console
system. My recent vga patches where early attempts at this but they are
still incomplete.

2000-11-07 09:57:01

by Richard Guenther

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX

On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, James Simmons wrote:

> > Unfortunately I cannot confirm this. Checked 2.4.0-test10 and the problem
> > is still there. I digged further and it seems to be a race condition(?)
> > triggered by swapped out stuff - because just starting X and switching
> > back to the console works fine, but as I start some memory-consuming stuff
> > (I have only 32Megs of ram) and then switch back to the console its
> > completely garbagled the first time and black the second time and later.
>
> I have seen this problem before. The problem is the X server is the one
> that sets the hardware back to vga text mode. Under heavy stress the X
> server can fail and the hardware is left in a undeterminate state. I have
> started on working to solve this problem but it will be something for
> 2.5.X since it requires quite a bit of change to vgacon and the console
> system. My recent vga patches where early attempts at this but they are
> still incomplete.

Umm, so why does this not happen with 2.2.X at all? Also the system is
not really stressed, but I simply do startx, inside an xterm go to
some random source, make -j, wait till the compile is complete and then
switch back to the console - its just that it seems that swapped out
X server or console stuff causes this.

I consider this quite a showstopper for 2.4.0.

Richard.

--
Richard Guenther <[email protected]>
WWW: http://www.anatom.uni-tuebingen.de/~richi/
The GLAME Project: http://www.glame.de/


2000-11-07 17:58:51

by James Simmons

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX


> Umm, so why does this not happen with 2.2.X at all? Also the system is
> not really stressed, but I simply do startx, inside an xterm go to
> some random source, make -j, wait till the compile is complete and then
> switch back to the console - its just that it seems that swapped out
> X server or console stuff causes this.
>
> I consider this quite a showstopper for 2.4.0.

Actually I just thought about it. Do you DRI running. When you have DRI
enabled you shouldn't VT switch. It is a design flaw in DRI and the
console system :-(. Disable DRI you you will be fine.

2000-11-07 18:16:22

by Alan Cox

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX

> Actually I just thought about it. Do you DRI running. When you have DRI
> enabled you shouldn't VT switch. It is a design flaw in DRI and the
> console system :-(. Disable DRI you you will be fine.

The theory behind DRI covers this fine. If its breaking fix the bugs in the
Xserver and DRI code. X gets to pick when it gives the console back

2000-11-08 09:31:13

by Richard Guenther

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX

On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Alan Cox wrote:

> > Actually I just thought about it. Do you DRI running. When you have DRI
> > enabled you shouldn't VT switch. It is a design flaw in DRI and the
> > console system :-(. Disable DRI you you will be fine.
>
> The theory behind DRI covers this fine. If its breaking fix the bugs in the
> Xserver and DRI code. X gets to pick when it gives the console back

You didnt read the config, etc. I posted - I dont have DRI - I
have an old P100 with 32Megs of ram and an old ATI Mach64 graphics
card. There really is nothing unusual with my setup - console
garbagling is even without loading the bttv module at all.

Richard.

--
Richard Guenther <[email protected]>
WWW: http://www.anatom.uni-tuebingen.de/~richi/
The GLAME Project: http://www.glame.de/

2000-11-08 17:20:58

by James Simmons

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX


> You didnt read the config, etc. I posted - I dont have DRI - I
> have an old P100 with 32Megs of ram and an old ATI Mach64 graphics
> card. There really is nothing unusual with my setup - console
> garbagling is even without loading the bttv module at all.

Okay. So it is what I thought it was orginally.

2000-11-08 17:42:20

by Richard Guenther

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX

On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, James Simmons wrote:

>
> > You didnt read the config, etc. I posted - I dont have DRI - I
> > have an old P100 with 32Megs of ram and an old ATI Mach64 graphics
> > card. There really is nothing unusual with my setup - console
> > garbagling is even without loading the bttv module at all.
>
> Okay. So it is what I thought it was orginally.

Okay - so its the console subsystem that gets it wrong? Remember
that 2.2.X gets it right - with the same X server. I really
would like to have this fixed in 2.4 - can I do something to
help fixing this? (I'm not familiar with the console subsystem,
neither with the X server)

Richard.

--
Richard Guenther <[email protected]>
WWW: http://www.anatom.uni-tuebingen.de/~richi/
The GLAME Project: http://www.glame.de/

2000-11-08 17:55:10

by James Simmons

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX


> Okay - so its the console subsystem that gets it wrong? Remember
> that 2.2.X gets it right - with the same X server. I really
> would like to have this fixed in 2.4 - can I do something to
> help fixing this? (I'm not familiar with the console subsystem,
> neither with the X server)

It is the way it is done that is wrong. At present the X server is in
total control of setting the console system back to text mode. This
works under normal conditions but when the system is stressed or X
fails you are stuck. The console system should be setting the video
hardware back to vga text mode instead of the X server. I have been
working on a patch that does that.

2000-11-08 17:59:00

by Richard Guenther

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX

On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, James Simmons wrote:

>
> > Okay - so its the console subsystem that gets it wrong? Remember
> > that 2.2.X gets it right - with the same X server. I really
> > would like to have this fixed in 2.4 - can I do something to
> > help fixing this? (I'm not familiar with the console subsystem,
> > neither with the X server)
>
> It is the way it is done that is wrong. At present the X server is in
> total control of setting the console system back to text mode. This
> works under normal conditions but when the system is stressed or X
> fails you are stuck. The console system should be setting the video
> hardware back to vga text mode instead of the X server. I have been
> working on a patch that does that.

Sure - but this was always the case. And using 2.2 with the same
(or more) stress the Xserver is still able to set the video hardware
back to vga text mode. I just want to know whats the difference
between 2.2 and 2.4 that causes failure in 2.4.

Richard.

--
Richard Guenther <[email protected]>
WWW: http://www.anatom.uni-tuebingen.de/~richi/
The GLAME Project: http://www.glame.de/

2000-11-08 18:19:02

by James Simmons

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX


> Sure - but this was always the case. And using 2.2 with the same
> (or more) stress the Xserver is still able to set the video hardware
> back to vga text mode. I just want to know whats the difference
> between 2.2 and 2.4 that causes failure in 2.4.

I don't think it is the console system. I bet if you stress 2.2 even more
you will get the same results.

2000-11-09 09:35:35

by Richard Guenther

[permalink] [raw]
Subject: Re: Broken colors on console with 2.4.0-textXX

On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, James Simmons wrote:

>
> > Sure - but this was always the case. And using 2.2 with the same
> > (or more) stress the Xserver is still able to set the video hardware
> > back to vga text mode. I just want to know whats the difference
> > between 2.2 and 2.4 that causes failure in 2.4.
>
> I don't think it is the console system. I bet if you stress 2.2 even more
> you will get the same results.

Ok, obviously I'm not happy with this - I'll try to stress 2.2, but
it never happened there. With 2.4 its nearly _always_ the case (on
32Megs ram you get into swapping very fast with X and gnome) - so, to
repeat, I'm not happy with the current 2.4 situation.

Richard.

--
Richard Guenther <[email protected]>
WWW: http://www.anatom.uni-tuebingen.de/~richi/
The GLAME Project: http://www.glame.de/