Subject: Re: Prioritizing readdirplus/getattr/lookup
From: Trond Myklebust <Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com>
To: Benny Halevy <bhalevy@panasas.com>
Cc: Garth Gibson <garth@cs.cmu.edu>, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org,
        Jim Rees <rees@umich.edu>, Andrew Klaassen <clawsoon@yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <4D9B694D.1030609@panasas.com>
References: <13701.83906.qm@web65411.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	 <882887.75491.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	 <20110404230528.GA2624@merit.edu> <4D9A61C9.1030900@panasas.com>
	 <20110405003944.GA31014@merit.edu> <4D9B195E.60108@panasas.com>
	 <640DA909-32A8-43EF-AF0B-ACE0689AC0CD@cs.cmu.edu>
	 <4D9B694D.1030609@panasas.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:48:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1302032887.7265.40.camel@lade.trondhjem.org>
Sender: linux-nfs-owner@vger.kernel.org
MIME-Version: 1.0

On Tue, 2011-04-05 at 12:11 -0700, Benny Halevy wrote:
> On 2011-04-05 10:14, Garth Gibson wrote:
> > The OpenGroup HECE proposals for extending the application/filesystem interface did not have a team of implementers behind them.  At the time some of the parallel file system vendors that added modules to the kernel were willing to work toward supporting these interfaces, but not a broader community.   
> >
> > I encourage the pNFS community to consider the use cases that led to those proposals.
> >
> > One example is lazy attributes.  Folks running large parallel jobs have a nasty habit of monitoring the progress of the job by running on their desktop a looping script doing ls -l on output files.  What is the length of a file that is open and being written to by other nodes?  Much of the time you want to be able to ask for a recently accurate value of attributes without recalling layouts, but perhaps some of the time you would like layouts to be recalled, or at least committed.
> 
> Right now the pNFS server does not have to recall the layout on GETATTR
> so lazy would be the default behavior for most implementations. Even if
> a client holds a delegation the server could send a CB_GETATTR to it to
> get the latest attributes without recalling the layout.  At any rate,
> the broader issue is that the posix system call API assumes a local file
> system and is not network not cluster file-system aware.

Recalling the outstanding layouts in a directory on every 'ls -l' sounds
like the perfect recipe for poor performance. I can't see why any
servers would want to do this.

In any case, a layout recall does not trigger client writeback: layouts
do not define a caching protocol.

Trond
-- 
Trond Myklebust
Linux NFS client maintainer

NetApp
Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com
www.netapp.com