Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of linux-nfs-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 2620:137:e000::1:20 as permitted sender) client-ip=2620:137:e000::1:20;
Message-ID: <3d4467af-e6f7-694b-e711-6fafb6490fc8@redhat.com>
Date:   Fri, 4 Mar 2022 10:54:36 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
 Thunderbird/91.5.0
Subject: Re: [PATCH] nfs.man: document requirements for NFS mounts in a
 container
Content-Language: en-US
To:     NeilBrown <neilb@suse.de>,
        Trond Myklebust <trondmy@hammerspace.com>
Cc:     "chuck.lever@oracle.com" <chuck.lever@oracle.com>,
        "linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org" <linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org>,
        "bcodding@redhat.com" <bcodding@redhat.com>
References: <cover.1644515977.git.bcodding@redhat.com>
 <4657F9AE-3B9E-4992-9334-3FF1CF18EF31@redhat.com>
 <C7533D80-25B3-4722-94A9-0440C48B8574@oracle.com>
 <945849B4-BE30-434C-88E9-8E901AAFA638@redhat.com>
 <06B01290-E375-455E-A6D7-419CA653A0D1@oracle.com>
 <948D8123-E310-4A35-BF04-C030F20EA83C@redhat.com>
 <164479707170.27779.15384523062754338136@noble.neil.brown.name>
 <863AB69A-D5D6-4F22-950C-E5F468CD4552@redhat.com>
 <42AAFEDD-F4EE-4A91-BD23-E08B1149EF1C@oracle.com>
 <3AF29DC6-2EEB-4C3E-BD6C-BE31910921AE@redhat.com>
 <9FC005FB-370E-4AFA-AD80-8599CBFCC1E0@oracle.com>
 <2965D098-7AEE-419D-BF8B-4D7AF4AB40FB@redhat.com>
 <164505339057.10228.4638327664904213534@noble.neil.brown.name>
 <164610623626.24921.6124450559951707560@noble.neil.brown.name>
 <F285A122-30EC-4353-AF10-FBF6999B7F25@oracle.com>
 <164627798608.17899.14049799069550646947@noble.neil.brown.name>
 <fe1527f96f5b8f6280b24985603bbf99cde58864.camel@hammerspace.com>
 <164635642445.13165.9587906660448735526@noble.neil.brown.name>
From:   Steve Dickson <steved@redhat.com>
In-Reply-To: <164635642445.13165.9587906660448735526@noble.neil.brown.name>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Precedence: bulk

Hey!

On 3/3/22 8:13 PM, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022, Trond Myklebust wrote:
>> On Thu, 2022-03-03 at 14:26 +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022, Chuck Lever III wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The remaining part of this text probably should be
>>>> part of the man page for Ben's tool, or whatever is
>>>> coming next.
>>>
>>> My position is that there is no need for any tool.  The total amount
>>> of
>>> code needed is a couple of lines as presented in the text below.  Why
>>> provide a wrapper just for that?
>>> We *cannot* automatically decide how to find a name or where to store
>>> a
>>> generated uuid, so there is no added value that a tool could provide.
>>>
>>> We cannot unilaterally fix container systems.  We can only tell
>>> people
>>> who build these systems of the requirements for NFS.
>>>
>>
>> I disagree with this position. The value of having a standard tool is
>> that it also creates a standard for how and where the uniquifier is
>> generated and persisted.
>>
>> Otherwise you have to deal with the fact that you may have a systemd
>> script that persists something in one file, a Dockerfile recipe that
>> generates something at container build time, and then a home-made
>> script that looks for something in a different location. If you're
>> trying to debug why your containers are all generating the same
>> uniquifier, then that can be a problem.
> 
> I don't see how a tool can provide any consistency.
> Is there some standard that say how containers should be built, and
> where tools can store persistent data?  If not, the tool needs to be
> configured, and that is not importantly different from bash being
> configured with a 1-line script to write out the identifier.
> 
> I'm not strongly against a tools, I just can't see the benefit.
I think I agree with this... Thinking about it... having a command that
tries to manipulate different containers in different ways just
seems like a recipe for disaster... I just don't see how a command would
ever get it right... Hell we can't agree on its command's name
much less what it will do. :-)

So I like idea of documenting when needs to happen in the
different types of containers... So I think the man page
is the way to go... and I think it is the safest way to go.

Chuck, if you would like tweak the verbiage... by all means.

Neil, will be a V2 for man page patch from this discussion
or should I just take the one you posted? If you do post
a V2, please start a new thread.

steved.