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Message-ID: <3edf1d47e2856572191c74d231f0bff4406adee6.camel@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 36/39] netfs: Implement a write-through caching option
From: Jeff Layton <jlayton@kernel.org>
To: David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>
Cc: Steve French <smfrench@gmail.com>, Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
  Marc Dionne <marc.dionne@auristor.com>, Paulo Alcantara
 <pc@manguebit.com>, Shyam Prasad N <sprasad@microsoft.com>, Tom Talpey
 <tom@talpey.com>, Dominique Martinet <asmadeus@codewreck.org>, Eric Van
 Hensbergen <ericvh@kernel.org>, Ilya Dryomov <idryomov@gmail.com>,
 Christian Brauner <christian@brauner.io>,  linux-cachefs@redhat.com,
 linux-afs@lists.infradead.org,  linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org,
 linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org,  ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org,
 v9fs@lists.linux.dev, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,  linux-mm@kvack.org,
 netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2023 12:19:35 -0500
In-Reply-To: <1075260.1703004686@warthog.procyon.org.uk>
References: <d1d4f3996f55cb98ab6297844a51bc905e2ce631.camel@kernel.org>
	 <20231213152350.431591-1-dhowells@redhat.com>
	 <20231213152350.431591-37-dhowells@redhat.com>
	 <1075260.1703004686@warthog.procyon.org.uk>
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On Tue, 2023-12-19 at 16:51 +0000, David Howells wrote:
> Jeff Layton <jlayton@kernel.org> wrote:
>=20
> > > This can't be used with content encryption as that may require expans=
ion of
> > > the write RPC beyond the write being made.
> > >=20
> > > This doesn't affect writes via mmap - those are written back in the n=
ormal
> > > way; similarly failed writethrough writes are marked dirty and left t=
o
> > > writeback to retry.  Another option would be to simply invalidate the=
m, but
> > > the contents can be simultaneously accessed by read() and through mma=
p.
> > >=20
> >=20
> > I do wish Linux were less of a mess in this regard. Different
> > filesystems behave differently when writeback fails.
>=20
> Cifs is particularly, um, entertaining in this regard as it allows the wr=
ite
> to fail on the server due to a checksum failure if the source data change=
s
> during the write and then just retries it later.
>=20

Should they be using bounce pages here? Maybe that's more efficient in
the common case though and worth the extra hit if it happens seldom
enough.

> > That said, the modern consensus with local filesystems is to just leave
> > the pages clean when buffered writeback fails, but set a writeback erro=
r
> > on the inode. That at least keeps dirty pages from stacking up in the
> > cache. In the case of something like a netfs, we usually invalidate the
> > inode and the pages -- netfs's usually have to spontaneously deal with
> > that anyway, so we might as well.
> >=20
> > Marking the pages dirty here should mean that they'll effectively get a
> > second try at writeback, which is a change in behavior from most
> > filesystems. I'm not sure it's a bad one, but writeback can take a long
> > time if you have a laggy network.
>=20
> I'm not sure what the best thing to do is.  If everything is doing
> O_DSYNC/writethrough I/O on an inode and there is no mmap, then invalidat=
ing
> the pages is probably not a bad way to deal with failure here.
>=20

That's a big if ;)

> > When a write has already failed once, why do you think it'll succeed on
> > a second attempt (and probably with page-aligned I/O, I guess)?
>=20
> See above with cifs.  I wonder if the pages being written to should be ma=
de RO
> and page_mkwrite() forced to lock against DSYNC writethrough.
>=20

That sounds pretty heavy handed, particularly if the server goes offline
for a bit. Now you're stuck in some locking call in page_mkwrite...

> > Another question: when the writeback is (re)attempted, will it end up
> > just doing page-aligned I/O, or is the byte range still going to be
> > limited to the written range?
>=20
> At the moment, it then happens exactly as it would if it wasn't doing
> writethrough - so it will write partial folios if it's doing a streaming =
write
> and will do full folios otherwise.
>=20
>
> > The more I consider it, I think it might be a lot simpler to just "fail
> > fast" here rather than remarking the write dirty.
>=20
> You may be right - but, again, mmap:-/
>=20

There's nothing we can do about mmap -- we're stuck page-sized I/Os
there.

With normal buffered I/O I still think just leaving the pages clean is
probably the least bad option. I think it's also sort of the Linux
"standard" behavior (for better or worse).

Willy, do you have any thoughts here?
--=20
Jeff Layton <jlayton@kernel.org>