From: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 2/4] ext4: Add XIP functionality
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 16:28:39 +1100
Message-ID: <20131206052839.GT10988@dastard>
References: <1386273769-12828-1-git-send-email-ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>
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 <20131206040722.GA15325@parisc-linux.org>
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Cc: Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@linux.intel.com>,
	linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	carsteno@de.ibm.com, matthew.r.wilcox@intel.com,
	andreas.dilger@intel.com
To: Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>
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In-Reply-To: <20131206040722.GA15325@parisc-linux.org>
Sender: linux-ext4-owner@vger.kernel.org

On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 09:07:22PM -0700, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 02:13:54PM +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
> > I think I see a significant problem here with XIP write support:
> > unwritten extents.
> > 
> > xip_file_write() has no concept of post IO completion processing -
> > it assumes that all that is necessary is to memcpy() the data into
> > the backing memory obtained by ->get_xip_mem(), and that's all it
> > needs to do.
> > 
> > For ext4 (and other filesystems that use unwritten extents) they
> > need a callback - normally done from bio completion - to run
> > transactions to convert extent status from unwritten to written, or
> > run other post-IO completion operations.
> > 
> > I don't see any hooks into ext4 to turn off preallocation (e.g.
> > fallocate is explicitly hooked up for XIP) when XIP is in use, so I
> > can't see how XIP can work with such filesystem requirements without
> > further infrastructure being added. i.e. bypassing the need for the
> > page cache does not remove the need to post-IO completion
> > notification to the filesystem....
> 
> The two are mutually exclusive:
> 
>         if (ext4_use_xip(inode->i_sb))
>                 inode->i_mapping->a_ops = &ext4_xip_aops;
>         else if (test_opt(inode->i_sb, DELALLOC))
>                 inode->i_mapping->a_ops = &ext4_da_aops;
>         else
>                 inode->i_mapping->a_ops = &ext4_aops;
> 
> Is it worth implementing delayed allocation support on top of XIP?

That's delayed allocation, not preallocation and unwritten extents.

> Indeed,
> what would that *mean*?  Assuming that the backing store is close to DRAM
> speeds, we don't want to cache in DRAM first, then copy to the backing
> store, we just want to write to the backing store.

Just because retreiving data is fast, it doesn't mean we can just
fragment the shit out of the block mapping. A GB file made up of 4k
chunks is going to be much, much slower to work with than a GB file
that can be mapped into a single TLB entry....

> > Indeed, for making filesystems like XFS be able to use XIP, we're
> > going to need such facilities to be provided by the XIP
> > infrastructure....
> 
> I have a patch in my development tree right now which changes the
> create argument to get_xip_mem into a flags argument, with 'GXM_CREATE'
> and 'GXM_HINT' as the first two flags.  Adding a GXM_ALLOC flag would
> presumably be enough of a hint to the filesystem that it's time to commit
> this range to disk.  Admitedly, it's pre-write and not post-write,
> but does that matter when the write is a memcpy?  I must admit to not
> quite understanding all 100k+ lines of XFS, so maybe you really do need
> to know when the memcpy has finished.

If you want an idea of how to do generic allocation, go back and
look at the discussion that Nick Piggin and I had years ago about
generic multi-page writes, and what a filesystem requires in terms
of transactional and write failure guarantees. It isn't simple - it
involves a reserve/commit/undo style of interface.

In fact, I think it would probably map to XIP usage just as well as
for multi-page writes through the page cache....

> I also don't see a problem with the filesystem either having a wrapper
> around xip_file_write or providing its own entire implementation of
> ->write.  Equally, I'm sure we could add some other callback in, say,
> address_space_operations that the XIP code could call after the memcpy
> if that's what XFS needs.

I suspect that we shouldn't even attempt to use a generic
implementation at first - do what is necessary for the different
filesystems, then try to work out common infrastructure....

Cheers,

Dave.
-- 
Dave Chinner
david@fromorbit.com