Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8942C10F0E for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2019 21:13:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0B52083E for ; Sun, 7 Apr 2019 21:13:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726558AbfDGVNd (ORCPT ); Sun, 7 Apr 2019 17:13:33 -0400 Received: from sandeen.net ([63.231.237.45]:53980 "EHLO sandeen.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726493AbfDGVNd (ORCPT ); Sun, 7 Apr 2019 17:13:33 -0400 Received: from [10.0.0.4] (liberator [10.0.0.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sandeen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 635B778C8; Sun, 7 Apr 2019 16:13:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [PATCH] bootfs: simple bootloader filesystem To: "Darrick J. Wong" Cc: Theodore Ts'o , Dave Chinner , linux-fsdevel , linux-ext4 , xfs References: <20190401070001.GJ1173@magnolia> <20190401214632.GS26298@dastard> <20190402045519.GK1173@magnolia> <20190406232717.GH18897@mit.edu> <20190407201328.GR15524@magnolia> From: Eric Sandeen Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=sandeen@sandeen.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE6x99QBEADMR+yNFBc1Y5avoUhzI/sdR9ANwznsNpiCtZlaO4pIWvqQJCjBzp96cpCs nQZV32nqJBYnDpBDITBqTa/EF+IrHx8gKq8TaSBLHUq2ju2gJJLfBoL7V3807PQcI18YzkF+ WL05ODFQ2cemDhx5uLghHEeOxuGj+1AI+kh/FCzMedHc6k87Yu2ZuaWF+Gh1W2ix6hikRJmQ vj5BEeAx7xKkyBhzdbNIbbjV/iGi9b26B/dNcyd5w2My2gxMtxaiP7q5b6GM2rsQklHP8FtW ZiYO7jsg/qIppR1C6Zr5jK1GQlMUIclYFeBbKggJ9mSwXJH7MIftilGQ8KDvNuV5AbkronGC sEEHj2khs7GfVv4pmUUHf1MRIvV0x3WJkpmhuZaYg8AdJlyGKgp+TQ7B+wCjNTdVqMI1vDk2 BS6Rg851ay7AypbCPx2w4d8jIkQEgNjACHVDU89PNKAjScK1aTnW+HNUqg9BliCvuX5g4z2j gJBs57loTWAGe2Ve3cMy3VoQ40Wt3yKK0Eno8jfgzgb48wyycINZgnseMRhxc2c8hd51tftK LKhPj4c7uqjnBjrgOVaVBupGUmvLiePlnW56zJZ51BR5igWnILeOJ1ZIcf7KsaHyE6B1mG+X dmYtjDhjf3NAcoBWJuj8euxMB6TcQN2MrSXy5wSKaw40evooGwARAQABtCVFcmljIFIuIFNh bmRlZW4gPHNhbmRlZW5Ac2FuZGVlbi5uZXQ+iQI7BBMBAgAlAhsDBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsE FgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCUzMzbAIZAQAKCRAgrhaS4T3e4Fr7D/wO+fenqVvHjq21SCjDCrt8HdVj aJ28B1SqSU2toxyg5I160GllAxEHpLFGdbFAhQfBtnmlY9eMjwmJb0sCIrkrB6XNPSPA/B2B UPISh0z2odJv35/euJF71qIFgWzp2czJHkHWwVZaZpMWWNvsLIroXoR+uA9c2V1hQFVAJZyk EE4xzfm1+oVtjIC12B9tTCuS00pY3AUy21yzNowT6SSk7HAzmtG/PJ/uSB5wEkwldB6jVs2A sjOg1wMwVvh/JHilsQg4HSmDfObmZj1d0RWlMWcUE7csRnCE0ZWBMp/ttTn+oosioGa09HAS 9jAnauznmYg43oQ5Akd8iQRxz5I58F/+JsdKvWiyrPDfYZtFS+UIgWD7x+mHBZ53Qjazszox gjwO9ehZpwUQxBm4I0lPDAKw3HJA+GwwiubTSlq5PS3P7QoCjaV8llH1bNFZMz2o8wPANiDx 5FHgpRVgwLHakoCU1Gc+LXHXBzDXt7Cj02WYHdFzMm2hXaslRdhNGowLo1SXZFXa41KGTlNe 4di53y9CK5ynV0z+YUa+5LR6RdHrHtgywdKnjeWdqhoVpsWIeORtwWGX8evNOiKJ7j0RsHha WrePTubr5nuYTDsQqgc2r4aBIOpeSRR2brlT/UE3wGgy9LY78L4EwPR0MzzecfE1Ws60iSqw Pu3vhb7h3bkCDQROsffUARAA0DrUifTrXQzqxO8aiQOC5p9Tz25Np/Tfpv1rofOwL8VPBMvJ X4P5l1V2yd70MZRUVgjmCydEyxLJ6G2YyHO2IZTEajUY0Up+b3ErOpLpZwhvgWatjifpj6bB SKuDXeThqFdkphF5kAmgfVAIkan5SxWK3+S0V2F/oxstIViBhMhDwI6XsRlnVBoLLYcEilxA 2FlRUS7MOZGmRJkRtdGD5koVZSM6xVZQSmfEBaYQ/WJBGJQdPy94nnlAVn3lH3+N7pXvNUuC GV+t4YUt3tLcRuIpYBCOWlc7bpgeCps5Xa0dIZgJ8Louu6OBJ5vVXjPxTlkFdT0S0/uerCG5 1u8p6sGRLnUeAUGkQfIUqGUjW2rHaXgWNvzOV6i3tf9YaiXKl3avFaNW1kKBs0T5M1cnlWZU Utl6k04lz5OjoNY9J/bGyV3DSlkblXRMK87iLYQSrcV6cFz9PRl4vW1LGff3xRQHngeN5fPx ze8X5NE3hb+SSwyMSEqJxhVTXJVfQWWW0dQxP7HNwqmOWYF/6m+1gK/Y2gY3jAQnsWTru4RV TZGnKwEPmOCpSUvsTRXsVHgsWJ70qd0yOSjWuiv4b8vmD3+QFgyvCBxPMdP3xsxN5etheLMO gRwWpLn6yNFq/xtgs+ECgG+gR78yXQyA7iCs5tFs2OrMqV5juSMGmn0kxJUAEQEAAYkCHwQY AQIACQUCTrH31AIbDAAKCRAgrhaS4T3e4BKwD/0ZOOmUNOZCSOLAMjZx3mtYtjYgfUNKi0ki YPveGoRWTqbis8UitPtNrG4XxgzLOijSdOEzQwkdOIp/QnZhGNssMejCnsluK0GQd+RkFVWN mcQT78hBeGcnEMAXZKq7bkIKzvc06GFmkMbX/gAl6DiNGv0UNAX+5FYh+ucCJZSyAp3sA+9/ LKjxnTedX0aygXA6rkpX0Y0FvN/9dfm47+LGq7WAqBOyYTU3E6/+Z72bZoG/cG7ANLxcPool LOrU43oqFnD8QwcN56y4VfFj3/jDF2MX3xu4v2OjglVjMEYHTCxP3mpxesGHuqOit/FR+mF0 MP9JGfj6x+bj/9JMBtCW1bY/aPeMdPGTJvXjGtOVYblGZrSjXRn5++Uuy36CvkcrjuziSDG+ JEexGxczWwN4mrOQWhMT5Jyb+18CO+CWxJfHaYXiLEW7dI1AynL4jjn4W0MSiXpWDUw+fsBO Pk6ah10C4+R1Jc7dyUsKksMfvvhRX1hTIXhth85H16706bneTayZBhlZ/hK18uqTX+s0onG/ m1F3vYvdlE4p2ts1mmixMF7KajN9/E5RQtiSArvKTbfsB6Two4MthIuLuf+M0mI4gPl9SPlf fWCYVPhaU9o83y1KFbD/+lh1pjP7bEu/YudBvz7F2Myjh4/9GUAijrCTNeDTDAgvIJDjXuLX pA== Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2019 16:13:32 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190407201328.GR15524@magnolia> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-ext4-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org On 4/7/19 3:13 PM, Darrick J. Wong wrote: > On Sun, Apr 07, 2019 at 01:10:55PM -0500, Eric Sandeen wrote: >> On 4/6/19 6:27 PM, Theodore Ts'o wrote: >>> On Mon, Apr 01, 2019 at 09:55:19PM -0700, Darrick J. Wong wrote: >>>> >>>> When Ted is done laughing, I really would like to consider something >>>> like this to solve the problem of grub-style bootloaders requiring a >>>> lease on the blocks underneath a file with a term exceeding that of the >>>> running kernel. >>>> >>>> We can probably skip the harsh synchronous writes in favor of fsync on >>>> close, but we would need to keep the critical component of checkpointing >>>> the journal on fsync and syncfs. >>> >>> At least for ext4, we don't need to add anything new, since FIFREEZE >>> force a journal checkpoint. So we could try to get a patch into grub >>> which causes update_grub to open each kernel that it finds, and calls >>> fsync(2) on it, and then for all file systems where it finds a kernel, >>> it can call FIFREEZE and FITHAW on it, and that would be that. >> >> Certain operating systems have hacked this in. My concern would be when >> /boot is on / ... calling FIFREEZE on the root fs would most likely be >> a bad thing. Certain operating systems avoid calling FIFREEZE for >> /boot-on-root. ;) >> >> Doing it for a standalone /boot seems like a reasonable (if hacky) >> workaround as long as we lack a more targeted quiesce interface... > > The other problem we noticed is that neither the grub scripts nor the > rpm package scripts bother to call fsync on the files they write (or > sync after they're done to mop up after everyone else), so I figured as > long as I'm ("jokingly") working around it all in kernel space, why not > just go all the way? :P > > Ok, I'll go work on an ioctl or something. FWIW, I didn't mean that I didn't like bootfs! I kind of like bootfs! -Eric