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Date:   Tue, 23 May 2023 13:01:57 +0200
From:   Christian Brauner <brauner@kernel.org>
To:     Jeff Layton <jlayton@kernel.org>
Cc:     Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
        "Darrick J. Wong" <djwong@kernel.org>,
        Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
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        Chuck Lever <chuck.lever@oracle.com>,
        Amir Goldstein <amir73il@gmail.com>,
        David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
        Neil Brown <neilb@suse.de>,
        Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
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        Namjae Jeon <linkinjeon@kernel.org>,
        Steve French <sfrench@samba.org>,
        Sergey Senozhatsky <senozhatsky@chromium.org>,
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Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 2/9] fs: add infrastructure for multigrain inode
 i_m/ctime
Message-ID: <20230523-undicht-antihelden-b1a98aa769be@brauner>
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On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 06:56:11AM -0400, Jeff Layton wrote:
> On Tue, 2023-05-23 at 12:17 +0200, Jan Kara wrote:
> > On Tue 23-05-23 12:02:40, Jan Kara wrote:
> > > On Thu 18-05-23 07:47:35, Jeff Layton wrote:
> > > > The VFS always uses coarse-grained timestamp updates for filling out the
> > > > ctime and mtime after a change. This has the benefit of allowing
> > > > filesystems to optimize away a lot metadata updates, down to around 1
> > > > per jiffy, even when a file is under heavy writes.
> > > > 
> > > > Unfortunately, this has always been an issue when we're exporting via
> > > > NFSv3, which relies on timestamps to validate caches. Even with NFSv4, a
> > > > lot of exported filesystems don't properly support a change attribute
> > > > and are subject to the same problems with timestamp granularity. Other
> > > > applications have similar issues (e.g backup applications).
> > > > 
> > > > Switching to always using fine-grained timestamps would improve the
> > > > situation, but that becomes rather expensive, as the underlying
> > > > filesystem will have to log a lot more metadata updates.
> > > > 
> > > > What we need is a way to only use fine-grained timestamps when they are
> > > > being actively queried.
> > > > 
> > > > The kernel always stores normalized ctime values, so only the first 30
> > > > bits of the tv_nsec field are ever used. Whenever the mtime changes, the
> > > > ctime must also change.
> > > > 
> > > > Use the 31st bit of the ctime tv_nsec field to indicate that something
> > > > has queried the inode for the i_mtime or i_ctime. When this flag is set,
> > > > on the next timestamp update, the kernel can fetch a fine-grained
> > > > timestamp instead of the usual coarse-grained one.
> > > > 
> > > > This patch adds the infrastructure this scheme. Filesytems can opt
> > > > into it by setting the FS_MULTIGRAIN_TS flag in the fstype.
> > > > 
> > > > Later patches will convert individual filesystems over to use it.
> > > > 
> > > > Signed-off-by: Jeff Layton <jlayton@kernel.org>
> > > 
> > > So there are two things I dislike about this series because I think they
> > > are fragile:
> > > 
> > > 1) If we have a filesystem supporting multigrain ts and someone
> > > accidentally directly uses the value of inode->i_ctime, he can get bogus
> > > value (with QUERIED flag). This mistake is very easy to do. So I think we
> > > should rename i_ctime to something like __i_ctime and always use accessor
> > > function for it.
> > > 
> > > 2) As I already commented in a previous version of the series, the scheme
> > > with just one flag for both ctime and mtime and flag getting cleared in
> > > current_time() relies on the fact that filesystems always do an equivalent
> > > of:
> > > 
> > > 	inode->i_mtime = inode->i_ctime = current_time();
> > > 
> > > Otherwise we can do coarse grained update where we should have done a fine
> > > grained one. Filesystems often update timestamps like this but not
> > > universally. Grepping shows some instances where only inode->i_mtime is set
> > > from current_time() e.g. in autofs or bfs. Again a mistake that is rather
> > > easy to make and results in subtle issues. I think this would be also
> > > nicely solved by renaming i_ctime to __i_ctime and using a function to set
> > > ctime. Mtime could then be updated with inode->i_mtime = ctime_peek().
> > > 
> > > I understand this is quite some churn but a very mechanical one that could
> > > be just done with Coccinelle and a few manual fixups. So IMHO it is worth
> > > the more robust result.
> > 
> > Also as I'm thinking about it your current scheme is slightly racy. Suppose
> > the filesystem does:
> > 
> > CPU1					CPU2
> > 
> > 					statx()
> > inode->i_ctime = current_time()
> >   current_mg_time()
> >     nsec = atomic_long_fetch_andnot(QUERIED, &inode->i_ctime.tv_nsec)
> > 					  nsec = atomic_long_fetch_or(QUERIED, &inode->i_ctime.tv_nsec)
> >     if (nsec & QUERIED) - not set
> >       ktime_get_coarse_real_ts64(&now)
> >     return timestamp_truncate(now, inode);
> > - QUERIED flag in the inode->i_ctime gets overwritten by the assignment
> >   => we need not update ctime due to granularity although it was queried
> > 
> > One more reason to use explicit function to update inode->i_ctime ;)
> 
> When we store the new time in the i_ctime field, the flag gets cleared
> because at that point we're storing a new (unseen) time.
> 
> However, you're correct: if the i_ctime in your above example starts at
> the same value that is currently being returned by
> ktime_get_coarse_real_ts64, then we'll lose the flag set in statx.
> 
> I think the right fix there would be to not update the ctime at all if
> it's a coarse grained time, and the value wouldn't have an apparent
> change to an observer. That would leave the flag intact.
> 
> That does mean we'd need to move to a function that does clock fetch and
> assigns it to i_ctime in one go (like you suggest). Something like:
> 
>     inode_update_ctime(inode);
> 
> How we do that with atomic operations over two values (the tv_sec and
> tv_nsec) is a bit tricky. I'll have to think about it.
> 
> Christian, given Jan's concerns do you want to drop this series for now
> and let me respin it?

I deliberately put it into a vfs.unstable.* branch. I would leave it
there until you send a new one then drop it. If we get lucky the bots
that run on -next will have time to report potential perf issues while
it's not currently causing conflicts.